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<blockquote data-quote="ForceUser" data-source="post: 2590691" data-attributes="member: 2785">I'd certainly argue that initiative is rolled as soon as each group is aware of the other. In the LotR example, the orcs converge on the room with the heroes in it, who are well aware that a horde of orcs is enroute, thanks to Merry's blunder. Once the horde is heard outside, both groups are aware of the other, and initiative is rolled. There is no surprise round. Boromir peeks through the door at the approaching horde (a Spot check) and declares: &quot;They have a cave troll.&quot; The heroes then immediately bar the door (taking one or two rounds to do so), which means that the orcs must hack through it. The heroes ready actions to fire as soon as they see orcs through the portal; the door splinters, they unload their arrows through the gap. Their place in the initiative order is adjusted accordingly. The orcs bust through (each taking an action), then close with the heroes (taking their other action). The heroes drop their bows (a free), draw their swords (a move), and start chopping up orcs (a standard). Makes sense to me, and all within the RAW.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="ForceUser, post: 2590691, member: 2785"] I'd certainly argue that initiative is rolled as soon as each group is aware of the other. In the LotR example, the orcs converge on the room with the heroes in it, who are well aware that a horde of orcs is enroute, thanks to Merry's blunder. Once the horde is heard outside, both groups are aware of the other, and initiative is rolled. There is no surprise round. Boromir peeks through the door at the approaching horde (a Spot check) and declares: "They have a [i]cave troll[/i]." The heroes then immediately bar the door (taking one or two rounds to do so), which means that the orcs must hack through it. The heroes ready actions to fire as soon as they see orcs through the portal; the door splinters, they unload their arrows through the gap. Their place in the initiative order is adjusted accordingly. The orcs bust through (each taking an action), then close with the heroes (taking their other action). The heroes drop their bows (a free), draw their swords (a move), and start chopping up orcs (a standard). Makes sense to me, and all within the RAW. :D [/QUOTE]

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