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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Isollae" data-source="post: 502155" data-attributes="member: 9126">If he becomes visible AFTER the spell compleats, you still allow invisibilty to trump READY ATION.  You see the Ogre Mage was a known entity (thats why he was ready) But because he was invisible would NOT be susceptible to Counter-spell as there are no 'keys' to make a spellcraft check on.this would suggest that invisibility goes 'away' at the begining of the spell thus allowing counterspell...this is weak but i got more.in the spell description for invisibility (players pg 218) it states that you be come visibile imeadiatly when you attack (make an attack action) the key word here being IMEADIATLY.Invisibility is a second level spell.  Alowing a second level spell to alter basic game mechanics is asking for trouble.  You don't get to do that till you get 4th level stuff like Confusion, Improved Invisibility(snicker), and Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer.and even those are lighter then this stuff.and then theres the one DM's reallly hate.  on page  158 of the Players Hand book (lower left corner) it discusses Saving against illusions.  Since saving throws are NOT actions of ANY type you can always make the save and then proccede to render the Oger Mage unconcious.  course then you have to decide which throw to use. Ref, Will, or Fort?  The argument about the Summon Creature doesn't hold water as that is identical as to opening a cage filled with hostiles which is clearly defined in Invisibility itself.  The key THERE is WHAT SPECIFICALLY is the action against...the action is to summon a Dude.  the action is to open a cage.  the action is to play the harp.If the dude is a deamon your still invisibleIf the cage opens down and weighs 1000000 pounds and will land on a bad guy you become visibleand if the the harp rains fire and brimstone upon the world you still become visible even tho there's no one there to see you.Iso"...Well then, in the interests of Intersteller comunnications i'd just like to say....COWABUNGA!"</blockquote>

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