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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Isollae" data-source="post: 503809" data-attributes="member: 9126">I think one of the problems that most people have with invisibility is that (and we're going back to 1st and 2nd here) it was part of the illusion/phantasm sphere.  whili they tried to clean it up in 3E its the Phantasm part that always makes it messy. here are a few reasons why i believe this happens.first is that 1-3rd level spells were only supposed to alter the basic perseptions of the players environment. it is the ability to pierce these simple perceptions that make these spells weaker.second is that 4th and higher begins encorperating phantasms.  a little bit of smoke to give the mirror some room to work.  third is that most people started campaings at 1st level they got bored with the game by 5th level and never really got into the more powerfull stuff.  and the people that started mid level typically went after the more flashy stuff.      how many people have built an illusionist up from 1st to 20th    the hard way?  How many have built a Transmuter up?and since 3E is an extension of the original concept this philosophy continues.  the idea that there is a fundmental shift in spell power after 3rd is consitant on both the divination AND arcane charts.  although i will admit that its much better now that there are not 2 diferent spells with the same name.last is a regurgitation from earlier....I believe caution should be exercised when when giving TOO much power to a low level spell.  cus when the 7th level version comes around BAM! right in the kisser. which brings us back to the begining.... does the invisibility go away before or after he begins casting the attack spell.my opinion is that its goes away During the casting.  not before or after (althought this amounts to the same as before).  I feel this makes the most sense logicly as well as Dramaticly.  since it is the action that causes the spell to disapate then it should disipate AS the action takes place. iso"...more human then human..."</blockquote>

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