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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 8228450">I think this is a bit misleading. The female characters might not pass a modern bechdel test. But that doesn't tell you if a character is well written or not (just if certain tropes are in play).  Was 90s Ravenloft current in its treatment of these things? No, of course not, it was written in the 90s. But the 90s were also a time of massive cultural change, and you see that reflected in products like Ravenloft and Vampire. And the characters were rich and well written for an RPG line. And the line has a lot of female writers (many of the novels were written by women, there were female writers on many of the modules and supplements and the black box was written by a man and woman (and the original adventure was written by a man and woman). You can break things down like that, and selectively choose which meta plot to suit the argument. But just to take one example: Gabrielle Adere, in the original black box had a lot more going on that made her interesting. She was presented as someone who was warned by her mother to never have a child (because it would be disastrous), but the thing that made her terrifying was her hatred. And the relationship that defined her most was with her mother. It was her mother's death that drove her to seek revenge and drew the attention of the dark powers to her (and specifically it was her hatred that attracted the dark powers). She is fueled by a hatred of gypsies and the people who inhabit her domain (and she is jealous of the other domain lords for this reason). I think it is a little tricky to pin her curse down, but in the original entry she hates the gypsies yet cannot harm them directly, and she hates the people of her domain. So I think an inability to vent her anger on the source is a big part of it. She can torment the people of her land but she finds them uninteresting so there is no satisfaction. Also Gabrielle is interesting because she is one of the few domain lords who siezed control of a domain by killing the previous domain lord. It is true, she was warned by her mother she cannot have a babe, a home or a man: but the thing that torments her is being an outcast and the isolation that stems from that. That is pretty relatable I think. And it is a powerful motivator. I think the best lords have these kinds of romantic backstories. And there weren't as many women in the original set, but I feel like the female entries all stood out as really well done (I forget lots of male domain lords, but always remember the female domain lords)Also one of the reasons romance factors in so much is the gothic influence. Even Strahd is fueled by desire for a woman (and many fo the male domain lords you mentioned, were as well: like Ivan Dilisnya (who is basically modeled after the I Claudius version of Caligula). Some of the most interesting horror characters are fueled by this kind of plot line. The Phantom of the Opera is a great example (and one that would fit right in in Ravenloft). Keep in mind meta plot really changed things over the course fo the line. And meta plot led to many questionable choices about particular characters. They certainly could have used more female domain lords. And I think if we had more then the results would have been more varied. Some of the best lords were the likes ofJacqueline Renier and Gabriele Aderre. Jacqueline does in fact have a curse that she turns to her rat man form when in the presence of someone she loves, and unlike other wereats, she is cursed to fall in love. You can say that is bad because it makes her character all about romance or love, but romance and love are hugely important in life and it makes her a much more compelling character than many of the other lords. I think it is a particularly interesting curse, and one you can immediately draw a line from to her cruel behavior. Ivana Boritsi I think wasn't actually fleshed out till after the black box but her curse was mentioned in the entry. I don't know, if you read that entry, I think it is obvious it is tapping into things that were really impacting our lives at the time and making us afraid. She poisoned herself to poison a  lover, and still carries the poison in her veins, which is likened to a disease she is immune to but kills any who taste her passion. It was still the height of the AIDS crisis at that time, and that is why a character like that would have resonated with many of us. Again, I think people are simplifying when they paint old Ravenloft as regressive. At the time it definitely wasn't. And I think if you examine things more fully, not just as bullet point lists of criticisms, you do see this is a pretty fleshed out world (for female and male characters). Not saying it is perfect, it could certainly have used more female lords. But it was quite good. And I just think it is very easy to bullet point critiques, and overlook the good of something. Especially when you have a line like this that is significant because it had so many female writers and designers. The best Van Richten book, in my opinion, was written by a woman. Christine Golden is inseparable from the novel line (and you had several other books like Tapestry of Dark Souls or I, Strahd written by women). I've mentioned Lisa Smedman's contributions as well. Also at the time, when I was running it, it was a setting that seemed to be written for both male and female gamers. And remember distinctly the impact seeing all those female credits (often on the modules or supplements I liked most) had. There always seemed to be more women interested in Ravenloft around here in the 90s.</blockquote>

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