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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8229939" data-attributes="member: 85555"><p>I feel like I understand your argument, I just disagree with you about it (and it is fine, I can't demand you agree with me, any more than you can demand I agree with you: we can only respect that we have different perspectives on where the line succeeded and failed in its characters). I think these are quality characters and not boring. They have very interesting backgrounds and they are more varied than just being reduced to wanting a baby or something. In the cases of the original boxed set, that wasn't their only goal. I pointed out how much more complex Gabrielle Aderre and Jacqueline Renier are. You keep reducing them to that one aspect. Not saying it wouldn't be good to have more female domain lords covering more ground. But the three big lords that keep getting mentioned are three of the best domain lords in all of Ravenloft. I don't think these bullet point critics of "she wants to have a baby so hates men" captures what the characters are actually about, and even if it did: you can do that well. It could be problematic, all the women are written around love, desiring a home, or a child, and it could still be quality design and writing (and to be clear not suggesting the new material ought to be written that way: I am just saying I don't think it makes sense for us to hold all books and games in history to a quality standard based on this kind of modern sensibility about how men and women should be written as characters). They have layered interests. And they are also very terrifying and effective villains, which is where we should be judging them in terms of quality of writing (not saying the new ravenloft villains need to follow these patterns, I just don't think it is a fair reading of the original material---especially when you consider the source material). Also like Paul, I think more of the male domain lords should have had these kinds of motivations because it fits with gothic and it makes for more sympathetic, impactful villains (there is a reason the boxed set highlighted the Monsters "I ought to be thy Adam" speech when it is trying to demonstrate how evil and villainy were meant to work in Ravenloft.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 8229939, member: 85555"] I feel like I understand your argument, I just disagree with you about it (and it is fine, I can't demand you agree with me, any more than you can demand I agree with you: we can only respect that we have different perspectives on where the line succeeded and failed in its characters). I think these are quality characters and not boring. They have very interesting backgrounds and they are more varied than just being reduced to wanting a baby or something. In the cases of the original boxed set, that wasn't their only goal. I pointed out how much more complex Gabrielle Aderre and Jacqueline Renier are. You keep reducing them to that one aspect. Not saying it wouldn't be good to have more female domain lords covering more ground. But the three big lords that keep getting mentioned are three of the best domain lords in all of Ravenloft. I don't think these bullet point critics of "she wants to have a baby so hates men" captures what the characters are actually about, and even if it did: you can do that well. It could be problematic, all the women are written around love, desiring a home, or a child, and it could still be quality design and writing (and to be clear not suggesting the new material ought to be written that way: I am just saying I don't think it makes sense for us to hold all books and games in history to a quality standard based on this kind of modern sensibility about how men and women should be written as characters). They have layered interests. And they are also very terrifying and effective villains, which is where we should be judging them in terms of quality of writing (not saying the new ravenloft villains need to follow these patterns, I just don't think it is a fair reading of the original material---especially when you consider the source material). Also like Paul, I think more of the male domain lords should have had these kinds of motivations because it fits with gothic and it makes for more sympathetic, impactful villains (there is a reason the boxed set highlighted the Monsters "I ought to be thy Adam" speech when it is trying to demonstrate how evil and villainy were meant to work in Ravenloft. [/QUOTE]
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