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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 8232275" data-attributes="member: 85555">This isn't what I am saying. I know that these meta plots happened. I was there when they happened. I bought the books and followed them in real time, and thought to myself &quot;what a terrible way for this character to go'. What this is about is what aspects of the ravenloft line I think are good and worth defending. And I think you do have to understand there is a different vision at work in the black boxed set than in later incarnations of ravenloft. That isn't meaningless in this discussion. If we are talking about whether Ravenloft was bad because of the tropes it had, or if the characters were poorly written, pointing out they were one way in black box, and that I think that was was better, and that later versions missed the point of the black box, matters. And I can talk about how I run Ravenloft. This happens with lots of games. Some people never got passed AD&amp;D 1E (or white box even). Those people when they discuss what is good about D&amp;D, are not even considering later versions of it. Also I think the more an IP drifts from its original creator (s) the more valid it is to draw distinctions between eras. The black box era is a clear thing. It is an entirely different type of Ravenloft than the WW era. It is entirely possible to love one and hate the other because they are so different. And the black box is much, much closer, imo to the original intent of the Ravenloft module, while also introducing profound intentions of its own----which diminished in the line over time).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 8232275, member: 85555"] This isn't what I am saying. I know that these meta plots happened. I was there when they happened. I bought the books and followed them in real time, and thought to myself "what a terrible way for this character to go'. What this is about is what aspects of the ravenloft line I think are good and worth defending. And I think you do have to understand there is a different vision at work in the black boxed set than in later incarnations of ravenloft. That isn't meaningless in this discussion. If we are talking about whether Ravenloft was bad because of the tropes it had, or if the characters were poorly written, pointing out they were one way in black box, and that I think that was was better, and that later versions missed the point of the black box, matters. And I can talk about how I run Ravenloft. This happens with lots of games. Some people never got passed AD&D 1E (or white box even). Those people when they discuss what is good about D&D, are not even considering later versions of it. Also I think the more an IP drifts from its original creator (s) the more valid it is to draw distinctions between eras. The black box era is a clear thing. It is an entirely different type of Ravenloft than the WW era. It is entirely possible to love one and hate the other because they are so different. And the black box is much, much closer, imo to the original intent of the Ravenloft module, while also introducing profound intentions of its own----which diminished in the line over time). [/QUOTE]

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