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<blockquote data-quote="ScipioX" data-source="post: 3461933" data-attributes="member: 50804">The OP did it exactly right!The rogues were aware of the PC's, and the PC's were not aware of the rogues.&nbsp; That's unequivocally a surprise round!A spot check once the door is open was irrelevant.&nbsp; The rogues weren't hiding.&nbsp; A listen check to hear a stationary foe is debatable, but in this case the PC's probably couldn't make the check regardless.&nbsp; Even if the PC's say they are assuming that there are opponents in the room, they are still surprised.&nbsp; The RAW requires awareness, not assumption.&nbsp; This makes sense in the real world too.&nbsp; If you have played any first person shooter games, (like counterstrike) and you are camped behind a box, you are much faster to react if you hear the opponent's footsteps than if you don't.&nbsp; You know that there are bad guys who might come around the box at any time, but your reaction time is much better if you can actually hear them approach.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ScipioX, post: 3461933, member: 50804"] The OP did it exactly right! The rogues were aware of the PC's, and the PC's were not aware of the rogues. That's unequivocally a surprise round! A spot check once the door is open was irrelevant. The rogues weren't hiding. A listen check to hear a stationary foe is debatable, but in this case the PC's probably couldn't make the check regardless. Even if the PC's say they are assuming that there are opponents in the room, they are still surprised. The RAW requires awareness, not assumption. This makes sense in the real world too. If you have played any first person shooter games, (like counterstrike) and you are camped behind a box, you are much faster to react if you hear the opponent's footsteps than if you don't. You know that there are bad guys who might come around the box at any time, but your reaction time is much better if you can actually hear them approach. [/QUOTE]

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