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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Michael Silverbane" data-source="post: 3477633" data-attributes="member: 38016">Here's what I would do, though this is not necessarily RAW...Assuming that the Dwarves have already become aware of the elves running around in their stronghold, or whatever.1st...  While everyone is still on opposite sides of the door.  The Dwarves (or rogues from your first example) would get a Move Silently check (with a circumstance bonus for sitting still) opposed by the Elves' (or the party, in your first example) Listen check.  Those that succeed on the Listen check become aware of opponents on the other side of the door. (ie. they will get to act in the surprise round).2nd...  The door gets kicked open.  This starts the encounter.  At the beginning of an encounter, you make Spot checks.  I'd also give the guy kicking in the door the penalty for being distracted (a -4 or -5, I believe).  The DC for the Spot checks is the higher of 20 or the Hide check of anyone who is hiding.  Those who succeed become aware of opponents.  Further, they actually see their opponents.  Characters who are hiding recieve a -5 penalty to their Spot checks.3rd...  Everyone rolls Initiative.  I'd give the Dwarves a +4 circumstance bonus to their Initiative rolls, to emulate their attempt at ambush.4th...  Anyone who is aware of opponents gets to act, in initiative order, in the surprise round.5th...  Regular combat rounds commence.  As an extra added bonus, those who did not act in the surprise round may only take either a Move action or a Standard action (but not both) during the first regular round of combat.Again...  Not exactly RAW, but pretty fair to both those that were attempting the ambush and those who would be ambushed.Latersilver</blockquote>

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