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<blockquote data-quote="IceBear" data-source="post: 686406" data-attributes="member: 1118">But they are in combat.&nbsp; Just because they aren't fighting doesn't mean that you couldn't have rolled Iniatitive (secretly) and had them ready actions.Actually it would be better just to treat it as surprise. Why wouldn't it be surprise?&nbsp; What's surprise normally - Side A is aware of the Side B before Side B is aware of Side A.&nbsp; What the hell do you do if the party is walking down the road and a group of thugs have readied an ambush?&nbsp; You make spot and listen checks and if the party fails to notice the thugs, the thugs attack first with a partial action - just like as if they had readied an action.&nbsp; So, if the invisible rogues decided to shoot the PCs and the PCs weren't aware they are there, then they got surprise and the attacks were with their partial actions, not readied actions.If the party WERE aware that they were there, then I'd definitely go with the initiative rolls.&nbsp; I mean if I told the PCs that there were three invisble rogues with crossbows at their back, but they didn't appear like they were going to fire, you KNOW that the PCs are going to also ready actions, so at this point I'd just roll initiatives and conduct the negotiations.&nbsp; If something went wrong, then combat begins as per the initiatives. I'd probably give the rogues a large bonus on Initiative as they had the crossbow drawn and whereas the PCs probably didn't.IceBear</blockquote>

[QUOTE="IceBear, post: 686406, member: 1118"] But they are in combat. Just because they aren't fighting doesn't mean that you couldn't have rolled Iniatitive (secretly) and had them ready actions. Actually it would be better just to treat it as surprise. Why wouldn't it be surprise? What's surprise normally - Side A is aware of the Side B before Side B is aware of Side A. What the hell do you do if the party is walking down the road and a group of thugs have readied an ambush? You make spot and listen checks and if the party fails to notice the thugs, the thugs attack first with a partial action - just like as if they had readied an action. So, if the invisible rogues decided to shoot the PCs and the PCs weren't aware they are there, then they got surprise and the attacks were with their partial actions, not readied actions. If the party WERE aware that they were there, then I'd definitely go with the initiative rolls. I mean if I told the PCs that there were three invisble rogues with crossbows at their back, but they didn't appear like they were going to fire, you KNOW that the PCs are going to also ready actions, so at this point I'd just roll initiatives and conduct the negotiations. If something went wrong, then combat begins as per the initiatives. I'd probably give the rogues a large bonus on Initiative as they had the crossbow drawn and whereas the PCs probably didn't. IceBear [/QUOTE]

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