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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyeshet" data-source="post: 3589414" data-attributes="member: 18363">I use Betabunny's "Predators." As such, I tend to use animals more often than core rules might suggest or presume. That said, wolves are first on my list. Note that while they are CR 1, this presumes a party of four. Against a single first level human fighter, barbarian, etc a single wolf can be a notable foe. But wolves rarely run alone. They run in packs of 7 - 16 (according to the SRD). So, what is the encounter rating for, say 8 wolves? What about 12 wolves? 16 wolves? Sure, once the party is around levels 8 - 10 a pack of wolves - even if 16 - is no longer a real threat (due to magic - both enhancements and spells), but at that level neither are a hundred first level warriors much of a threat either. The PCs by this level are legendary super-heroes (or super-villains, as the case may be). Still, wolves seem remarkably underused at levels 4 - 8. A pack of 12 to 16 wolves should still be a notable challenge by that level, especially if you advance the HD of the lead wolf a couple die &/or give a few of the wolves elite arrays instead of the sub-par array of 10s and 11s.[Edit]Having thought about it a bit, I believe I recall the rules for CR adjustment as +1 for each doubling the number of foes of a given CR. So, by this ruling, 2 wolves is CR 2, 4 wolves is CR 3, 8 wolves is CR 4, and 16 wolves is CR 5. So a large pack is a 'normal' challenge for a group of four 5th level PCs. I wonder how that would work out in play-testing? On the other hand, in a pack of that size (16), I would - as a GM - likely give an elite array to, say, 88 of the wolves and then a further +1 HD to 4 of the 8 elites and a +2 HD to 2 of the remaining 4 elites - the alpha male and female wolf. I would probably presume (excluding winter time) that 2d6 pups exist back at the pack's din, guarded by, say 4 female wolves of normal HD and array. So, in total, the 16 member pack as I envision it would perhaps work out to a CR 6 instead of a CR 5 - presuming CR 5 is the true CR for a pack of 16 wolves.</blockquote>

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