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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ElectricDragon" data-source="post: 2938632" data-attributes="member: 10778">Notice that the penalty for being non-proficient with a weapon is different from the penalty for using an improvised weapon. A really strict DM could apply both penalties and he should for really strange weapons that have no similarities with normal weapons (e.g. a curtain can be used as a weapon, but it would be difficult and unweildy; a table can be used for a weapon, but large tables work better as tower shields not rams or missiles). Being proficient in a weapon has nothing to do with its quality as a weapon. A beer bottle or a chair leg is not built to be used as a bludgeoning weapon and therefore gains a -4 improvised weapon penalty on its use. A club or mace is built for such use and doesn't gain such a penalty, but can still give its weilder a -4 non-proficiency penalty if he doesn't have proficiency in club, mace, or simple weapons. Most DMs would consider common objects to confer their proficiency just by effect of their common-ness and disinclude a -4 non-proficiency penalty. A chair leg is enough like a club or mace that proficiency in either could count for the chair leg. A bottle also resembles a club (until it breaks, them it is more like a dagger).That said, I have no problem with a feat chain that would allow a character or NPC to become proficient with improvised weapons. Just remember that the penalty reduction you are calling for could actually be considered -8 not -4.CiaoDave</blockquote>

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