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Community
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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
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<blockquote data-quote="fenriswolf456" data-source="post: 5892179" data-attributes="member: 6687664"><p>I'm not sure how strict the Pacifist Cleric is ... though I think RAW they can attack unbloodied creatures. But it sounds more like you want a true pacifist and not attack and do damage at all.</p><p> </p><p>Lvl 1 -Cause Fear, while it does make an attack, it does no damage, and I would consider usuable by a true pacifist.</p><p>Beacon of Hope, another 'attack' that just weakens foes and heals allies</p><p>Guardian of Faith</p><p>Lvl 2 - Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Divine Aid, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith</p><p>Lvl 3 - Command</p><p>Lvl 5 - Consecrated Ground, Weapon of the Gods if cast on someone elses weapon</p><p>Lvl 6 - Bastion of Health, Cure Serious Wounds, Divine Vigour, Holy Lantern</p><p>Lvl 9 - Astral Defenders, Blade Barrier if used as just a wall between you and enemies</p><p>Lvl 10 - Astral Refuge, Knights of Unyielding Valour, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Shielding Ward</p><p> </p><p>Admittedly it does get tougher to find non-damaging powers once in the paragon tier. I don't have access to Divine Power, so can't see if there are more options available. But certainly for Heroic Tier, it can be done fairly well just from the basic core PH.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No, true, it would be hard to have a character who just sits there and heals every turn. Again, I don't know the Pacifist Cleric option offhand, so not sure if this sort of character is truly covered or not. I've never really been a fan of the concept, though I can see it working for certain campaign settings.</p><p> </p><p>But I would also venture that this is a very narrow character concept with limited appeal. I'm all for support classes, but believe they should do more than just heal every turn. They should be buffing their allies, making it difficult for enemies to attack effectively by direct debuffs, protection magicks or even putting up obstacles to impede enemies.</p><p> </p><p>And as we've said, using raw surges (just getting back your surge value), while certainly useful and potentially life-saving, is a very ineffecient use of surges, especially if you've got a healer who specialized in healing. And you can't spend surges on your own (i.e., use Second Wind, which is a once per encounter ability and the only way to use surges without a specific power/ability) if you drop to negatives, so they're going to desperately need that cleric to heal them, either by spell or using the heal skill. I suppose it depends on the group, but ours very rarely uses Second Wind unless times are desperate, with either the healer out of healing, or in getting that +2 to defenses so that you can maybe avoid the next hit, or in my case where my character's SW gives out temp HPs to everyone (so far only used a couple of times when things were looking pretty grim). </p><p> </p><p>Second Wind on it's own isn't going to take much away from a devoted healer. If a character only needs a Second Wind to get through an encounter, it's not an encounter that would have had that "big heal that saves the party" moment in it in the first place. Healing someone who's in single digits, or on the floor dying, are your big moments, and those heals are going to be amazingly good and likely game-changers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="fenriswolf456, post: 5892179, member: 6687664"] I'm not sure how strict the Pacifist Cleric is ... though I think RAW they can attack unbloodied creatures. But it sounds more like you want a true pacifist and not attack and do damage at all. Lvl 1 -Cause Fear, while it does make an attack, it does no damage, and I would consider usuable by a true pacifist. Beacon of Hope, another 'attack' that just weakens foes and heals allies Guardian of Faith Lvl 2 - Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Divine Aid, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith Lvl 3 - Command Lvl 5 - Consecrated Ground, Weapon of the Gods if cast on someone elses weapon Lvl 6 - Bastion of Health, Cure Serious Wounds, Divine Vigour, Holy Lantern Lvl 9 - Astral Defenders, Blade Barrier if used as just a wall between you and enemies Lvl 10 - Astral Refuge, Knights of Unyielding Valour, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Shielding Ward Admittedly it does get tougher to find non-damaging powers once in the paragon tier. I don't have access to Divine Power, so can't see if there are more options available. But certainly for Heroic Tier, it can be done fairly well just from the basic core PH. No, true, it would be hard to have a character who just sits there and heals every turn. Again, I don't know the Pacifist Cleric option offhand, so not sure if this sort of character is truly covered or not. I've never really been a fan of the concept, though I can see it working for certain campaign settings. But I would also venture that this is a very narrow character concept with limited appeal. I'm all for support classes, but believe they should do more than just heal every turn. They should be buffing their allies, making it difficult for enemies to attack effectively by direct debuffs, protection magicks or even putting up obstacles to impede enemies. And as we've said, using raw surges (just getting back your surge value), while certainly useful and potentially life-saving, is a very ineffecient use of surges, especially if you've got a healer who specialized in healing. And you can't spend surges on your own (i.e., use Second Wind, which is a once per encounter ability and the only way to use surges without a specific power/ability) if you drop to negatives, so they're going to desperately need that cleric to heal them, either by spell or using the heal skill. I suppose it depends on the group, but ours very rarely uses Second Wind unless times are desperate, with either the healer out of healing, or in getting that +2 to defenses so that you can maybe avoid the next hit, or in my case where my character's SW gives out temp HPs to everyone (so far only used a couple of times when things were looking pretty grim). Second Wind on it's own isn't going to take much away from a devoted healer. If a character only needs a Second Wind to get through an encounter, it's not an encounter that would have had that "big heal that saves the party" moment in it in the first place. Healing someone who's in single digits, or on the floor dying, are your big moments, and those heals are going to be amazingly good and likely game-changers. [/QUOTE]
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