Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5895376" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Setting aside that neither kills the Cleric at all, I'm glad you see the parallel. </p><p></p><p>Nod. And a WoCLW was a pool of ~275 hps, distributable to anyone in 1d8+1 dollops.</p><p></p><p>So the same 'problem' existed in both editions, but, really, what was this problem that "kills off clerics?"</p><p></p><p>In 4e, a cleric is able to trigger and enhance healing surges, and to provide non-surge healing if he cares to pick the right utilities. He can even take a 'pacifist' option which makes him an unparalleled healer, and discourages much attacking at all (mostly 'attacks' that just de-buff rather than doing damage). If the cleric player wants to take a more 'hands on' approach there's a fairly tough melee build, and a ranged controllerish one, as well. But, between combat, healing is just a matter of rest, so the cleric need only heal in-combat. The Cleric is a very viable option in 4e, a fully-contributing, balanced class, but it is an /option/, not a necessity. There are other sources of healing, and between-combat healing is almost a non-issue, though it does consume a daily resource of each character, so is not unlimited in any sense.</p><p></p><p>In 3e, a cleric is able to spontaneously burn prepared spells for healing, and has the best selection of healing spells, making him the best healer in the game. But, with the WoCLW cheap and readily available (through commoditized magic, or Crafting), between-combat healing is a non-issue, whether you have a cleric in the party, or it's a Bard or Paladin or UMD Rogue triggering the wand. In-combat there are other classes able to heal well enough to get by, but the cleric is the best. Relieved of the burden of healing between combats, the Cleric can devote all of his spells to other areas, making him a clear 'tier 1' class, superior to all but the strongest of other full-casters. The cleric is one of the superior options in 3e, but not technically a necessity, a Druid (also tier 1, also capable of healing) could take his place, for instance. And, between-combat healing is a non-issue, consuming only a fairly trivial amount of the party's gold (and possibly exp) resources.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The point here isn't which of the two is better, but the way in which both are better than their predecessors: that is in as far as the Cleric is no longer "nothing but a band-aid," a class that had to be played for the party's mere survival, but which offered very little 'reward' for the player of the cleric. In 3e and 4e, the Cleric is a worthy class, on that's engaging and rewarding to play, with contributions to make over and above merely patching up his buddies.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5895376, member: 996"] Setting aside that neither kills the Cleric at all, I'm glad you see the parallel. Nod. And a WoCLW was a pool of ~275 hps, distributable to anyone in 1d8+1 dollops. So the same 'problem' existed in both editions, but, really, what was this problem that "kills off clerics?" In 4e, a cleric is able to trigger and enhance healing surges, and to provide non-surge healing if he cares to pick the right utilities. He can even take a 'pacifist' option which makes him an unparalleled healer, and discourages much attacking at all (mostly 'attacks' that just de-buff rather than doing damage). If the cleric player wants to take a more 'hands on' approach there's a fairly tough melee build, and a ranged controllerish one, as well. But, between combat, healing is just a matter of rest, so the cleric need only heal in-combat. The Cleric is a very viable option in 4e, a fully-contributing, balanced class, but it is an /option/, not a necessity. There are other sources of healing, and between-combat healing is almost a non-issue, though it does consume a daily resource of each character, so is not unlimited in any sense. In 3e, a cleric is able to spontaneously burn prepared spells for healing, and has the best selection of healing spells, making him the best healer in the game. But, with the WoCLW cheap and readily available (through commoditized magic, or Crafting), between-combat healing is a non-issue, whether you have a cleric in the party, or it's a Bard or Paladin or UMD Rogue triggering the wand. In-combat there are other classes able to heal well enough to get by, but the cleric is the best. Relieved of the burden of healing between combats, the Cleric can devote all of his spells to other areas, making him a clear 'tier 1' class, superior to all but the strongest of other full-casters. The cleric is one of the superior options in 3e, but not technically a necessity, a Druid (also tier 1, also capable of healing) could take his place, for instance. And, between-combat healing is a non-issue, consuming only a fairly trivial amount of the party's gold (and possibly exp) resources. The point here isn't which of the two is better, but the way in which both are better than their predecessors: that is in as far as the Cleric is no longer "nothing but a band-aid," a class that had to be played for the party's mere survival, but which offered very little 'reward' for the player of the cleric. In 3e and 4e, the Cleric is a worthy class, on that's engaging and rewarding to play, with contributions to make over and above merely patching up his buddies. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Realism vs. Believability and the Design of HPs, Powers and Other Things
Top