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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8005302" data-attributes="member: 29398">And if the DM is running a module in which it clearly states that triggering the trap results in a no-save death (e.g. a 10'-cube chunk of roof falls on the PC who is in a 10x10' room), then what?True.&nbsp; I'm merely trying to find a basis for comparison here, to put the trap and the kill-the-king on the same footing.If I put it as each event results in save-or-die rather than just die, are we closer?I disagree (with a caveat, see below); in that the DM has to be allowed to play her NPCs in a manner consistent with who and what they are - just like players have to be similarly allowed to play their PCs.Here, the guy already has a reputation of being &quot;the mad tyrant&quot; and - one hopes - has already shown signs of living up to that reputation while the PCs have been in town.&nbsp; They know what they're up against; and if they choose to attack him anyway and fail, their fate is no longer their own.The caveat: if the PCs had never heard of this guy before first meeting him and thus didn't know his reputation etc. one of two things would happen: if the PCs talked with him at all I'd make sure it was obvious he was both competely unstable and prone to fits of violence; if they attacked him on first sight only then would I resort to dice.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8005302, member: 29398"] And if the DM is running a module in which it clearly states that triggering the trap results in a no-save death (e.g. a 10'-cube chunk of roof falls on the PC who is in a 10x10' room), then what? True. I'm merely trying to find a basis for comparison here, to put the trap and the kill-the-king on the same footing. If I put it as each event results in save-or-die rather than just die, are we closer? I disagree (with a caveat, see below); in that the DM has to be allowed to play her NPCs in a manner consistent with who and what they are - just like players have to be similarly allowed to play their PCs. Here, the guy already has a reputation of being "the mad tyrant" and - one hopes - has already shown signs of living up to that reputation while the PCs have been in town. They know what they're up against; and if they choose to attack him anyway and fail, their fate is no longer their own. The caveat: if the PCs had never heard of this guy before first meeting him and thus didn't know his reputation etc. one of two things would happen: if the PCs talked with him at all I'd make sure it was obvious he was both competely unstable and prone to fits of violence; if they attacked him on first sight only then would I resort to dice. [/QUOTE]

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