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Message: <blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 8006252" data-attributes="member: 7016699">[USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] Yes, [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] described several ways the scene could have been handled differently. I believe he has some experience with the adventure in question, so his points are well worth considering in this specific instance. I think some of them are looking to solve what's clearly an out-of-game problem (different preferences/expectations for play) in-game, which I think is ... not the best approach, but if you're determined not to break the fourth wall here they'll serve--though I think there's still a discussion necessary, after the scene or after the session. I think his points about DM Fiat mattering less than people having fun, and the sorts of considerations that should come into play before deploying DM Fiat in this instance are important and valid.I disagree about the situation being impossible in other resolution systems, though. I'll grant that it would probably violate the expectations of play that in Prince Valiant the PCs should be arrested and in a prison with their executions scheduled for the next day, but that doesn't in itself seem contradictory to your description of its approach to PC death--the expectation I'd think would be that there'd be a way to arrange their escape. It doesn't seem out of the mechanics' range, but I'll grant that you know the system approximately infinitely better than I do. I don't know Burning Wheel any better than Prince Valiant, but again it seems plausible (not likely--plausible) that the mechanics could lead to a situation not radically different from this, with the GM being thoughtful about the NPC and about framing, and with the stakes being explicit. I figure there are different paths to roughly the same place.As to "yielding" and the effects of checks on the NPC: Those in this thread who know the adventure have described the tyrant in question as weak. It seems to me that a weak despot would be more likely to react poorly to being insulted, more likely to resort to executions and other strong-arm tactics than a strong one, and that those in fact might be his failure states (he loses his composure) rather than his success states. Of course, it's possible that my tendency to think backward is leading me astray here--and of course, he may be written differently in the adventure.</blockquote>

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