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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8006878" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I think the word <em>helpful </em>is pretty fundamental here.</p><p></p><p>I talk with groups of people all the time - groups of students; groups of colleagues; groups of friends; etc. In those groups, normally some are more articulate than others. But they are not the only ones who speak. I have things I want to know from others (eg <em>What is it that you're finding hard about this example?</em> or <em>What movie do you want to see?</em>). I have things I want to say to others, which prompt them to respond. They have ideas and knowledge and emotions that they want to express, so they speak.</p><p></p><p>It's striking to me that, in a thread about "realistic" consequences, a defender of those is putting forward such an unrealistic picture of human interactions.</p><p></p><p>The starting point is for the GM to think about the situation similarly to how s/he might think about a combat. For instance, why does the mad tyrant not address the barbarian or thief or whomever directly (as Eomer does to Gimili).</p><p></p><p>The next step is to think more carefully about how to adjudicate the resulting action declarations. In particular, if we take it as given that Gimli's player (ie the player of the relatively low-CHA dwarf) is more likely to fail a check than is Aragorn's player (whose paladin has at least 17 CHA!), how do we resolve this? In LotR Eomer still lends Gimli a horse, but there is an outstanding dispute between them about whether Galadriel is the most beautiful woman in Middle Earth.</p><p></p><p>Of course there are many many other ways to think about making sense of a failure in social interaction. I just point to that one because it's fairly fresh in my mind and it is the sort of thing that I don't hear much about in accounts of D&D play.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: And here we have Exhibits A and B:</p><p></p><p></p><p>This will never produce a situation in which Eomer lets the group go, and even lends them horses, but has a meaningful outstanding dispute with GImli. It flattens out all the fiction.</p><p></p><p>There are RPGing systems that do this for combat - eg Tunnels & Trolls - but D&D has never been one of them. Why flatten out social interaction when it is so easy not to. It's not as if D&D has never come up with an alternative approach that avoids such flattening out ie the skill challenge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8006878, member: 42582"] I think the word [I]helpful [/I]is pretty fundamental here. I talk with groups of people all the time - groups of students; groups of colleagues; groups of friends; etc. In those groups, normally some are more articulate than others. But they are not the only ones who speak. I have things I want to know from others (eg [I]What is it that you're finding hard about this example?[/I] or [I]What movie do you want to see?[/I]). I have things I want to say to others, which prompt them to respond. They have ideas and knowledge and emotions that they want to express, so they speak. It's striking to me that, in a thread about "realistic" consequences, a defender of those is putting forward such an unrealistic picture of human interactions. The starting point is for the GM to think about the situation similarly to how s/he might think about a combat. For instance, why does the mad tyrant not address the barbarian or thief or whomever directly (as Eomer does to Gimili). The next step is to think more carefully about how to adjudicate the resulting action declarations. In particular, if we take it as given that Gimli's player (ie the player of the relatively low-CHA dwarf) is more likely to fail a check than is Aragorn's player (whose paladin has at least 17 CHA!), how do we resolve this? In LotR Eomer still lends Gimli a horse, but there is an outstanding dispute between them about whether Galadriel is the most beautiful woman in Middle Earth. Of course there are many many other ways to think about making sense of a failure in social interaction. I just point to that one because it's fairly fresh in my mind and it is the sort of thing that I don't hear much about in accounts of D&D play. EDIT: And here we have Exhibits A and B: This will never produce a situation in which Eomer lets the group go, and even lends them horses, but has a meaningful outstanding dispute with GImli. It flattens out all the fiction. There are RPGing systems that do this for combat - eg Tunnels & Trolls - but D&D has never been one of them. Why flatten out social interaction when it is so easy not to. It's not as if D&D has never come up with an alternative approach that avoids such flattening out ie the skill challenge. [/QUOTE]
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