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Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 8007361" data-attributes="member: 7016699"><p>I'm not sure what thematic interest is served by interrupting a negotiation, but sure, you can remain the protagonist and insult the Mad Tyrant. Just don't complain when the consequence for doing so is unpleasant. Nothing about what happens needs to change that the PCs are the protagonists. The problem seemed as much as anything to be that it took the campaign far enough outside the published adventure that the OP didn't feel comfortable ad-libbing (mostly because of how that table games on VTT, as I understand it--I think maybe there weren't maps ready). Well, that and the players seemed to have different ideas of what their goals were at that point.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Don't insult the Mad Tyrant" isn't so much "Deal with the Mad Tyrant in one particular way" as "When dealing with the Mad Tyrant, <strong>don't do this.</strong>" There seems to be some conflation of these two things, and there's nothing in your description of his potential personality that invalidates his reaction in the OP's specific case--weak leaders lash out, not strong ones, and IIRC he's specifically called out as weak.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Huh. So, I suppose a DM could arrange those traits for the NPC. Maybe those fit the descriptions of the realm in the published material; if not, the environment would need re-writing to suit those (and I'll let that slide for the purposed of discussion).</p><p></p><p>The impression I got from the OP was that the CHA checks were related/directed to the Mad Tyrant, so we're getting even more counterfactual here by having it aimed at the Captain; but I'll play this game for the nonce. If the Captain is so much the focus of the Mad Tyrant's Bond, he seems as though he might need fleshing out the same way as the Mad Tyrant, and he needs to be the sort who'd earn the Mad Tyrant's trust, keep it, and not act out before now. It's at least as easy to write those so his Bond is, e.g., "An insult to my Lord is an insult to me" as anything else; maybe his Ideal is "I will do what I must to keep the peace between my Lord and the citizens" and his Flaw is "I keep my Lord's trust by keeping my silence." Now we have an NPC who'd be the sort of quiet sideman who'd be the focus of the Mad Tyrant's Bond, and keep his position and other wise fit into the setting as described. And by insulting the Mad Tyrant, the PCs have triggers the Captain's Bond, and made it much harder for them to persuade him not to arrest them.</p><p></p><p>See? Anyone can re-write the scenario to be anything.</p><p></p><p>In reality, what you've proposed isn't a bad way for things to go. I wonder how many NPCs a given player would have to insult into submission before someone started feeling the verisimilitude slip away, but that's a matter of taste. I kinda feel, though, that focusing so much on Ideals, Bonds, Flaws, and Traits kinda seems more like NPC as Puzzle than something more ... freeform, but it doesn't need to be that way in practice, I suspect.</p><p></p><p>What happened in the OP is preferable to your counterfactual if--and only if--the table wants "realistic" play and if--and only if--that's what they consider "realistic." Note that it doesn't seem as though the players felt the Burgermaster behaved unreasonably or unrealistically.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="prabe, post: 8007361, member: 7016699"] I'm not sure what thematic interest is served by interrupting a negotiation, but sure, you can remain the protagonist and insult the Mad Tyrant. Just don't complain when the consequence for doing so is unpleasant. Nothing about what happens needs to change that the PCs are the protagonists. The problem seemed as much as anything to be that it took the campaign far enough outside the published adventure that the OP didn't feel comfortable ad-libbing (mostly because of how that table games on VTT, as I understand it--I think maybe there weren't maps ready). Well, that and the players seemed to have different ideas of what their goals were at that point. "Don't insult the Mad Tyrant" isn't so much "Deal with the Mad Tyrant in one particular way" as "When dealing with the Mad Tyrant, [B]don't do this.[/B]" There seems to be some conflation of these two things, and there's nothing in your description of his potential personality that invalidates his reaction in the OP's specific case--weak leaders lash out, not strong ones, and IIRC he's specifically called out as weak. Huh. So, I suppose a DM could arrange those traits for the NPC. Maybe those fit the descriptions of the realm in the published material; if not, the environment would need re-writing to suit those (and I'll let that slide for the purposed of discussion). The impression I got from the OP was that the CHA checks were related/directed to the Mad Tyrant, so we're getting even more counterfactual here by having it aimed at the Captain; but I'll play this game for the nonce. If the Captain is so much the focus of the Mad Tyrant's Bond, he seems as though he might need fleshing out the same way as the Mad Tyrant, and he needs to be the sort who'd earn the Mad Tyrant's trust, keep it, and not act out before now. It's at least as easy to write those so his Bond is, e.g., "An insult to my Lord is an insult to me" as anything else; maybe his Ideal is "I will do what I must to keep the peace between my Lord and the citizens" and his Flaw is "I keep my Lord's trust by keeping my silence." Now we have an NPC who'd be the sort of quiet sideman who'd be the focus of the Mad Tyrant's Bond, and keep his position and other wise fit into the setting as described. And by insulting the Mad Tyrant, the PCs have triggers the Captain's Bond, and made it much harder for them to persuade him not to arrest them. See? Anyone can re-write the scenario to be anything. In reality, what you've proposed isn't a bad way for things to go. I wonder how many NPCs a given player would have to insult into submission before someone started feeling the verisimilitude slip away, but that's a matter of taste. I kinda feel, though, that focusing so much on Ideals, Bonds, Flaws, and Traits kinda seems more like NPC as Puzzle than something more ... freeform, but it doesn't need to be that way in practice, I suspect. What happened in the OP is preferable to your counterfactual if--and only if--the table wants "realistic" play and if--and only if--that's what they consider "realistic." Note that it doesn't seem as though the players felt the Burgermaster behaved unreasonably or unrealistically. [/QUOTE]
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