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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8009073" data-attributes="member: 16814">&quot;Red herrings&quot; was explicitly called out as an intended result.&nbsp; Did we read the same post?Well, yes, if they're not red herrings then we're okay.&nbsp; The point of that post wasn't to provide a new place to shop for interesting things or quest-giving proprietors.&nbsp; If you're changing the example we're both working from so that your conclusion fits and mine doesn't, that's moving the goalposts.&nbsp; The example given was explicitly about confusing the situation with red herrings and extra information so as to force the players to weed through it to find their goal.&nbsp; It was even explicitly said that if they do this weeding in a noticeable way the assassins would be prepared.&nbsp; There's no way for the players to make meaningful action resolutions at the start of the presented scenario because there's no information provided to leverage -- anything they try will be a guess first, at which point the GM will (especially given the later post of possible details) increase the level of chaff with fully details NPCs that have no reason to be present other than to be a red herring and drive the fiction towards a point the GM can use to justify having the assassins alerted.&nbsp; This is an example of using scene setting as GM Force -- Force being using GM authority to drive to a pre-determined or desired outcome regardless of player inputs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8009073, member: 16814"] "Red herrings" was explicitly called out as an intended result. Did we read the same post? Well, yes, if they're not red herrings then we're okay. The point of that post wasn't to provide a new place to shop for interesting things or quest-giving proprietors. If you're changing the example we're both working from so that your conclusion fits and mine doesn't, that's moving the goalposts. The example given was explicitly about confusing the situation with red herrings and extra information so as to force the players to weed through it to find their goal. It was even explicitly said that if they do this weeding in a noticeable way the assassins would be prepared. There's no way for the players to make meaningful action resolutions at the start of the presented scenario because there's no information provided to leverage -- anything they try will be a guess first, at which point the GM will (especially given the later post of possible details) increase the level of chaff with fully details NPCs that have no reason to be present other than to be a red herring and drive the fiction towards a point the GM can use to justify having the assassins alerted. This is an example of using scene setting as GM Force -- Force being using GM authority to drive to a pre-determined or desired outcome regardless of player inputs. [/QUOTE]

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