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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8009372" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>I don’t know how anyone can really disagree that when a GM removes options available to the PCs to resolve an obstacle, things become more of a railroad. It seems self evident.</p><p></p><p>Especially when every example consists of things that are not actually full on roadblocks. More guards at the gate? That’s not the same as saying “the PCs cannot pass the gate no matter what”. More guards simply makes it tougher....a bigger fight, or more people to sneak past, or more people to trick, or more targets for a spell.</p><p></p><p>There’s no reason that a group of players can’t come up with ideas on how to get into a castle any number of ways. Sure, the sewer may be the path of least resistance, but between skills, spells, or martial prowess, the PCs have tools at their disposal. </p><p></p><p>It’s only a problem when the GM has made it so that specific paths are simply never going to work. This NPC cannot be reasoned with, <em>no matter what</em>, or this door cannot be opened, <em>no matter what</em>, or this trap cannot be disarmed, <em>no matter what</em>.</p><p></p><p>Creating different routes to success, and placing different degrees of difficulty on those routes is not railroading....it’s creating meaningful decision points. </p><p></p><p>“We can storm the gate and it’ll be a tough fight, but once we clear the guards we’ll have a direct route to the keep. Or we can traverse the sewers, it’ll take longer and we’ve heard rumors of some creature living there, but we’ll arrive near the keep unnoticed.”</p><p></p><p>Removing one of these paths is not very good design. Especially not when it’s simply to force the other path as the only way. That’s a railroad. </p><p></p><p>I’ll add this caveat....I do this from time to time. I place the PCs in a situation where there is one way out. Every now and then, I think it’s okay to do this....I just tend to help them recognize this may be the situation instead of letting them deliberate multiple options that I know won’t work. I don’t see the value in wasting time discussing options that are not truly available. I don’t do this often...I prefer at least one alternative path to success for any obstacle/encounter.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 8009372, member: 6785785"] I don’t know how anyone can really disagree that when a GM removes options available to the PCs to resolve an obstacle, things become more of a railroad. It seems self evident. Especially when every example consists of things that are not actually full on roadblocks. More guards at the gate? That’s not the same as saying “the PCs cannot pass the gate no matter what”. More guards simply makes it tougher....a bigger fight, or more people to sneak past, or more people to trick, or more targets for a spell. There’s no reason that a group of players can’t come up with ideas on how to get into a castle any number of ways. Sure, the sewer may be the path of least resistance, but between skills, spells, or martial prowess, the PCs have tools at their disposal. It’s only a problem when the GM has made it so that specific paths are simply never going to work. This NPC cannot be reasoned with, [I]no matter what[/I], or this door cannot be opened, [I]no matter what[/I], or this trap cannot be disarmed, [I]no matter what[/I]. Creating different routes to success, and placing different degrees of difficulty on those routes is not railroading....it’s creating meaningful decision points. “We can storm the gate and it’ll be a tough fight, but once we clear the guards we’ll have a direct route to the keep. Or we can traverse the sewers, it’ll take longer and we’ve heard rumors of some creature living there, but we’ll arrive near the keep unnoticed.” Removing one of these paths is not very good design. Especially not when it’s simply to force the other path as the only way. That’s a railroad. I’ll add this caveat....I do this from time to time. I place the PCs in a situation where there is one way out. Every now and then, I think it’s okay to do this....I just tend to help them recognize this may be the situation instead of letting them deliberate multiple options that I know won’t work. I don’t see the value in wasting time discussing options that are not truly available. I don’t do this often...I prefer at least one alternative path to success for any obstacle/encounter. [/QUOTE]
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