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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8010254" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I want to preface this by pointing out I am discussing when a DM blocks certain actions. Not when they are left to the dice to determine the outcome. I am talking about the paths to success when faced with an obstacle, and how if those paths are removed because the DM decides that they cannot work, no matter what, then the DM is pushing things toward a specific path.If you don't do this, then whatever you're saying isn't really what I'm talking about.If the DM is not considering the threats he is placing in the PCs path, relative to their level/capability, then the DM is being thoughtless about the game. This is not the same as saying that every thing placed in front of the PCs needs to be something that they can defeat. It simply means that if the DM is responsible for the elements of the game world, then he should give some thought to how they will play, not just the fictional justification for their existence.And they need not be mutually exclusive. Yes, things should make sense in the fiction. They should also make sense as a game. Sure, it makes sense that the lord would place his most capable knight at the front gate. It also makes sense that the knight has been sent on a quest by the lord, and so is unavailable to guard the gate. The fiction can be anything the DM wants......so whatever the fiction is, is the DM's choice.So if the DM decides that the super high level knight is guarding the front gate, it's because he wants to deter the PCs from attacking. Which in and of itself is fine. I've absolutely done this in my game.....sometimes, it's interesting to remove one of the most obvious options, or perhaps the option that the PCs most often use....to see what else they come up with.It only starts to become a problem when more and more options are thus removed by the DM, not because the PCs fail due to dice rolls, but because the DM decides that they simply cannot work.If the DM is not giving consideration to these things, then he is being thoughtless about the game.If you only ever consider fictional justification....which as we've established can be almost anything you want it to be....then you're not considering the game that's being played.If multiple paths are being allowed, then this is not something I see as a problem. The DM is considering alternate paths for the PCs to get into the castle.If the DM's notes say "the front gate is so heavily guarded that it's suicide to go that way, and all those who work in the castle are terrified of the lord to the point where they'd never consider betraying him, and there are no sympathetic NPCs outside the castle who will help the PCs.....but there is a forgotten and unguarded sewer grate that leads inside" and then play consists of the PCs fumbling about until they find the DM's one path to success......that is what I think is bad design, and is very much a railroad in my opinion.Yes.The fiction is not the reason that anything is happening. As you say, the DM is responsible for all the fiction. Therefore, whatever happens in the game is very much determined by the DM, not by the fiction.The fiction isn't deciding anything.Plenty of other people have run adventures exactly as written. Plenty of other people aren't worried about X in this place, or Y in that. Other people may think just the right amount of information is given here and there. Opinions on this vary, obviously.I think this thread clearly shows that many folks cling too much to what's written, whether it's a published adventure or one of their own design.You said that your players came up with 10 ideas, and that 3 could have worked. They chose poorly. Now, I don't know how you decide what would or would not work, but again, I'm talking about the cases where the DM blocks a certain path. So if 7 of 10 ideas simply cannot work, I'd not spend a lot of time on them. I'd instead focus on the three that may, or maybe on the three that may and then one or two of the impossible ones just for reference. I wouldn't want to spend 70% of our time on stuff that won't ultimately matter.If you're not talking about paths that you simply would not allow, then I mistook your comment.</blockquote>

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