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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8012769" data-attributes="member: 6795602">I don't believe a chess player's agency is taken away because he can't move his knight as a queen.&nbsp; I believe the agency of a player is defined by the moves they can make inside the game and that those moves cause unique feedback inside the game.&nbsp; Losing player agency occurs either when that feedback loop gets temporarily turned off or when a legal move is not permitted.&nbsp; The first can happen in the &quot;GM Decides&quot; style but isn't required to.&nbsp; I don't believe it can happen games where a mechanic other than &quot;person Decides&quot; is being used.&nbsp; The second only happens when a referee makes an incorrect ruling and can occur in any game with a referee.All styles allow players to change the shared fiction by having their PCs do things.&nbsp; This even occurs in an instance of auto-failure.&nbsp; Player had PC attempt to do something -&gt; auto-failure -&gt; shared fiction changes.&nbsp; Thus, from the definition provided in this quote it doesn't follow that a GM ruling auto failure takes away player agency.&nbsp; It's not that their attempt at agency has been blocked/negated - it's that they did have their character make a move and that move resulted in a change in the shared fiction.The more I read of your position the more I think you aren't using a very good definition of player agency.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 8012769, member: 6795602"] I don't believe a chess player's agency is taken away because he can't move his knight as a queen. I believe the agency of a player is defined by the moves they can make inside the game and that those moves cause unique feedback inside the game. Losing player agency occurs either when that feedback loop gets temporarily turned off or when a legal move is not permitted. The first can happen in the "GM Decides" style but isn't required to. I don't believe it can happen games where a mechanic other than "person Decides" is being used. The second only happens when a referee makes an incorrect ruling and can occur in any game with a referee. All styles allow players to change the shared fiction by having their PCs do things. This even occurs in an instance of auto-failure. Player had PC attempt to do something -> auto-failure -> shared fiction changes. Thus, from the definition provided in this quote it doesn't follow that a GM ruling auto failure takes away player agency. It's not that their attempt at agency has been blocked/negated - it's that they did have their character make a move and that move resulted in a change in the shared fiction. The more I read of your position the more I think you aren't using a very good definition of player agency. [/QUOTE]

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