Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8013741" data-attributes="member: 6795602">1.&nbsp; Please don't accuse me of wanting to talk about sums and parts when I'm not the one that first made mention of that concept in this discussion.2.&nbsp; The question of &quot;how much control do you feel you have over the story you are helping to tell&quot; is only a meaningful indicator of a single type of player agency.&nbsp; It doesn't address the other type/types though.3.&nbsp; D&amp;D has never been low agency.&nbsp; You have complete agency over your characters actions (or at least nearly so).&nbsp; D&amp;D is low agency in respect to granting a player agency over fictional outcomes - but that's basically tautological at this point - you've defined agency to solely mean &quot;control over fictional outcomes&quot; and therefore since D&amp;D doesn't allow for player control of fictional outcomes you say it has no player agency.4.&nbsp; Even control over fictional outcomes is a dubious way of saying it - as all PC actions are fictional outcomes of some circumstance and since players control PC actions - even in D&amp;D they do have player agency over (some) fictional outcomes.Heck, wasn't it you that earlier sympathized with [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] about how other games can seem a bit off to a traditional D&amp;D player because they override a players control over his character and that's all such a player has ever known?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 8013741, member: 6795602"] 1. Please don't accuse me of wanting to talk about sums and parts when I'm not the one that first made mention of that concept in this discussion. 2. The question of "how much control do you feel you have over the story you are helping to tell" is only a meaningful indicator of a single type of player agency. It doesn't address the other type/types though. 3. D&D has never been low agency. You have complete agency over your characters actions (or at least nearly so). D&D is low agency in respect to granting a player agency over fictional outcomes - but that's basically tautological at this point - you've defined agency to solely mean "control over fictional outcomes" and therefore since D&D doesn't allow for player control of fictional outcomes you say it has no player agency. 4. Even control over fictional outcomes is a dubious way of saying it - as all PC actions are fictional outcomes of some circumstance and since players control PC actions - even in D&D they do have player agency over (some) fictional outcomes. Heck, wasn't it you that earlier sympathized with [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] about how other games can seem a bit off to a traditional D&D player because they override a players control over his character and that's all such a player has ever known? [/QUOTE]

Verification