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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8016999" data-attributes="member: 6785785">It ceases to be math when the DM decides "Oh you insult him? He calls for the guards."What math was the player considering in the OP? What kind of check was used? What was the DC?As far as we know, and according to many folks in this thread, we don't need to know those answers. Because the DM is well within his ability to determine that there is no possibility of success, and not call for a roll at all, and simply narrate what happens.Curse of Strahd. The PCs are adventurers from beyond Barovia. They are armed and armored, capable of using magic, and so on. It's obvious that they are more powerful than the meek villagers he is accustomed to dealing with. In the OP, he certainly seemed to deem them worth an audience, so that's all we have to go on in for that specific example. It's enough."Obstacle to overcome" or "navigate through" are just phrases that mean the same thing. And there absolutely is conflict between the PCs and the Baron. How they deal with that conflict is the question. So, with that in mind....compare what we know of the baron's temper with a dragon having a high AC. This was my point.People describe the dragon as being armored. People describe the baron as being unstable. Armored has a mechanical expression in the game. Unstable has no such mechanical expression. It could. The DM can simply assign a DC with that in mind.....to convince this nutjob, you need to score X on a Persuasion check or Y on an Intimidate check. Doesn't take much. But it's not something that's already there. If it was, this thread wouldn't exist.Right. Why wouldn't he consider the PCs along those lines? Not that he'd be as wary of them as he would Strahd, but more wary than townsfolk for sure.Yes, mistakes can happen with any system. My point is that this system lends itself to this particular mistake. It make it more likely to happen.It's not that I'm ignoring it, it's that I think my point is that this is a weak spot for this system. I don't think that the DM needs to do a poor job for their to be confusion. Even great DMs are going to leave something out, or they're going to be more vague than they think they're being, and so on. In most cases, this won't be poor DMing.Now that you've restated this, I find it no clearer how this means anything to our discussion.I really don't think that's something precluded by the rules. The DM determines the outcome on a failure, whether it's no progress, or partial success, or success with a setback. I don't think that there's a rule that says "The DM can't say the PC breaks his foot."</blockquote>

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