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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8017995" data-attributes="member: 6696971">[USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER]Here is where I think your analysis of Fate hits a snag.  I also wonder if it intersects with the conversation about mundane "mind control."1)  The Aspect/Compel tech in Fate has been cribbed (at least in spirit) by many other games.  At its core, it boils down to (a) player signals to table-at-large that they want thematic thing x to be a cornerstone of their character's conflict (both subversive and a bulwark...as cornerstones tend to be), (b) hence test this thing, (c) hence, I accept that the collision of (a) and (b) will likely lead to a severe challenge to the conception of my PC up-to-and-including an evolution where thematic thing x changes (perhaps flipping on its head entirely).2)  Neuro/cognitive science consensus has accreted around the theory that human agency is considerably less than what individual human perception believes it to be and what civilization is premised upon.3)  I not only don't bat an eye about the idea of a combination of exogenous (social pressure, circumstance) and endogenous (the endocrine system, someone's conception of themself, perception bias, genes that have been turned on with no will being in the mix) leading to a loss of agency in mundane circumstances (an American PoW in a Chinese PoW camp falling prey to the slow trickle of "re-education" machinery, someone becoming smitten by another person to the point of behavior they would consider deranged upon introspection, a false confession after someone has been in a traumatic situation and then leaned on for 36 hours by the police, a person who is typically lacking in aggression and physicality finding themselves kicking a downed person when incited mob behavior and social pressure converge, someone who is simultaneously riddled with extreme self-doubt but saddled with an extreme sense of purpose, etc)...but the visceral experience of habitation becomes increased in proportion.If I'm playing a real person (even a hero) who could fall prey to any number of the mundane agency-stealing moments of life (which every_single_person can have their perceived autonomy taken from them...because biology)...and I have it imposed on me (as happens in real life...its not a choice), that enhances immersion for me.  Autonomous pantomiming falling prey to something (addiction or any of the things I mentioned above)?  I struggle to find how that could remotely be immersive?  How is it rewarding and/or bulwarking to one's conception of self when the integral "internal struggle to overcome" isn't actually integral or sincere...it (the struggle and the output of that struggle) becomes borderline farce (from a first principles perspective).</blockquote>

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