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Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 8018564" data-attributes="member: 7016699"><p>I don't have a problem with the fiction trending as the players want, either; I just want it to be rooted in the setting and prior events, and the result of character choices. I'm also more open than you are, I think, to the idea the player who proposed the idea might be stubbornly wrong, which might be as much about our different experiences with fellow-gamers as about our different preferences.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm going to talk about those as though they were happening at a table were I was GMing, not because you're doing it wrong (y'all are enjoying it greatly, I gather, so that seems unlikely-shading-to-impossible).</p><p></p><p>At my table, I think the parts you bolded would likely play out (or I would interpret it as playing out) as the party deciding on their plan of action, maybe with some consulting with the GM as to how the plan would interact with the GM's understanding of the rules and the setting (there is some thought at the table that the GM is less likely to forget established in-world facts than the players, which is ... kind of them). It seems as though we may be seeing similar (not identical) processes through different perspectives, eh? I mean, the party in one of the campaigns I GM spent an entire four-hour session planning an assault on an enemy's lair, and there was some checking to make sure the players and the GM were on the same page as far as situation and rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I can definitely see how having expendable resources would make it easier to say yes. If nothing else, the player is indicating the importance of the question to them by spending something. I don't know 4E (never played it at all) but I don't see anything in the descriptions here that seems overly generous, especially for a game that you describe as "gonzo."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So ... the item is cursed because the character failed to identify it? That's an ... interesting mechanic. I'm pondering how that possibility would affect my decision-making in-game. I think--and this is about me, not about your table or even really the game--that it would gradually erode my suspension of disbelief somewhat as a player; clearly it doesn't for you or your players, or y'all aren't as worried about that--again, that's superb that y'all enjoy playing that way.</p><p></p><p>I have a question about your term "RPG-as-puzzle": what exactly do you mean by that? Clearly it's a style you don't particularly enjoy--that much is clear--and it seems to come up when someone mentions the possibility that players and/or characters should be allowed to make mistakes (as something different from failing at an action resolution). It seems as though you associate it with bad-faith GMing and/or a degenerate form of play, and it seems as though it comes up a lot around things I don't see as either. (I don't think you're accusing me of either.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="prabe, post: 8018564, member: 7016699"] I don't have a problem with the fiction trending as the players want, either; I just want it to be rooted in the setting and prior events, and the result of character choices. I'm also more open than you are, I think, to the idea the player who proposed the idea might be stubbornly wrong, which might be as much about our different experiences with fellow-gamers as about our different preferences. I'm going to talk about those as though they were happening at a table were I was GMing, not because you're doing it wrong (y'all are enjoying it greatly, I gather, so that seems unlikely-shading-to-impossible). At my table, I think the parts you bolded would likely play out (or I would interpret it as playing out) as the party deciding on their plan of action, maybe with some consulting with the GM as to how the plan would interact with the GM's understanding of the rules and the setting (there is some thought at the table that the GM is less likely to forget established in-world facts than the players, which is ... kind of them). It seems as though we may be seeing similar (not identical) processes through different perspectives, eh? I mean, the party in one of the campaigns I GM spent an entire four-hour session planning an assault on an enemy's lair, and there was some checking to make sure the players and the GM were on the same page as far as situation and rules. I can definitely see how having expendable resources would make it easier to say yes. If nothing else, the player is indicating the importance of the question to them by spending something. I don't know 4E (never played it at all) but I don't see anything in the descriptions here that seems overly generous, especially for a game that you describe as "gonzo." So ... the item is cursed because the character failed to identify it? That's an ... interesting mechanic. I'm pondering how that possibility would affect my decision-making in-game. I think--and this is about me, not about your table or even really the game--that it would gradually erode my suspension of disbelief somewhat as a player; clearly it doesn't for you or your players, or y'all aren't as worried about that--again, that's superb that y'all enjoy playing that way. I have a question about your term "RPG-as-puzzle": what exactly do you mean by that? Clearly it's a style you don't particularly enjoy--that much is clear--and it seems to come up when someone mentions the possibility that players and/or characters should be allowed to make mistakes (as something different from failing at an action resolution). It seems as though you associate it with bad-faith GMing and/or a degenerate form of play, and it seems as though it comes up a lot around things I don't see as either. (I don't think you're accusing me of either.) [/QUOTE]
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