NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8018761" data-attributes="member: 16814">I understand [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER]'s argument, I think, and see why it's hard to explain or pin down.  If I may be forgiven, I'm going to attempt a different formulation of it.Means matter.  [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] prefers that the fictional attempt at control be established first, then resolved, then the loss of agency being applied to the next fictional state.  Things like FATE Compels start with the resolution, then establishes all of the fiction.  The order of these things matters to [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER].I see it.  I don't share this view because this particular set of means doesn't resonate with me.  We're playing a game that uses all kinds of extra-fictional resolutions, but if you get used to a certain set of these so that they become normal (like becoming adjusted to how D&D plays) then it can be difficult to adopt a different frame of reference.  Or, you might just not like the other frame of reference.  It's totally a preference thing -- you like what you like.  It can be frustrating when the difference between two viewpoints seems small and unimportant from one vantage but very important from the other.  This topic of discussion is exactly this -- from my and [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] and others point of view, this is a rather unimportant distinction.  From [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER]'s, it's critical.  I happen to still recall the fairly recent past when I would have been on [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER]'s side of this discussion and not [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s, so it's easy for me to recall what I had trouble with and then analyze it with my newer understandings.  I think [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] has a valid point of view that's difficult to explain if you don't also understand the other because you can't find the words to explain it to someone that just doesn't quite see it at all.  Kudos to all involved for keeping this discussion as drama-free as it has been, but double kudos to [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] for this, because I very much understand how easy it is to feel like your likes are being attacked, and you've avoided that very well.</blockquote>

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