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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8023419" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>I think you're mixing two different things here with the mistress and the pit trap. Assuming we're running a dungeoncrawl, the pit trap is a valid obstacle because the players can, through the PCs, engage in various approaches to discover it. Failing to mount this kind of skilled play results in finding the pit trap in a less than optimal way.</p><p></p><p>However, the mistress isn't like the pit trap -- there isn't a set of skilled play that can be brought to bear without the GM building the social encounter like a dungeon. Most (all?) don't do this, or anything close to this. Rather, the information about the mistress can be discovered if you guess this is a thing and if you take the appropriate action. The problem is the approach -- either the players, as part of their skilled play, are expected to investigate every NPC for secret lovers (or, at least fictionally important NPCs), or they the players have to guess. Granted, this can be shifted by foreshadowing the issue, but then it's not really the same situation.</p><p></p><p>Many GM's use their notes to determine things about the fiction that are more fully decided as one way by the GM than even the notes say. The mistress may not be faithful, or may be a mistress against her will, or... lots of possibilities. If the GM writes down that the Duke has a mistress, and that this mistress is a powerful noble that might be attractive to the players as an ally absent the knowledge about being the Duke's mistress, and that the mistress would never betray the Duke, then you're in Force territory and need to be careful about play. Just the GM writing these notes down (or keeping them in their head) does not turn this into a no Force situation. Unless the GM foreshadows these facts well, so that the players can make informed decisions, then this is really just expecting the players to guess at a random thing when they don't even know they need to guess. And, if that directs play, it's Force -- the GM's thumb is on the scale directing a result that the players didn't even know was possible.</p><p></p><p>Of course, there's lots of ways to avoid that, but 'it's in the notes' in insufficient.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8023419, member: 16814"] I think you're mixing two different things here with the mistress and the pit trap. Assuming we're running a dungeoncrawl, the pit trap is a valid obstacle because the players can, through the PCs, engage in various approaches to discover it. Failing to mount this kind of skilled play results in finding the pit trap in a less than optimal way. However, the mistress isn't like the pit trap -- there isn't a set of skilled play that can be brought to bear without the GM building the social encounter like a dungeon. Most (all?) don't do this, or anything close to this. Rather, the information about the mistress can be discovered if you guess this is a thing and if you take the appropriate action. The problem is the approach -- either the players, as part of their skilled play, are expected to investigate every NPC for secret lovers (or, at least fictionally important NPCs), or they the players have to guess. Granted, this can be shifted by foreshadowing the issue, but then it's not really the same situation. Many GM's use their notes to determine things about the fiction that are more fully decided as one way by the GM than even the notes say. The mistress may not be faithful, or may be a mistress against her will, or... lots of possibilities. If the GM writes down that the Duke has a mistress, and that this mistress is a powerful noble that might be attractive to the players as an ally absent the knowledge about being the Duke's mistress, and that the mistress would never betray the Duke, then you're in Force territory and need to be careful about play. Just the GM writing these notes down (or keeping them in their head) does not turn this into a no Force situation. Unless the GM foreshadows these facts well, so that the players can make informed decisions, then this is really just expecting the players to guess at a random thing when they don't even know they need to guess. And, if that directs play, it's Force -- the GM's thumb is on the scale directing a result that the players didn't even know was possible. Of course, there's lots of ways to avoid that, but 'it's in the notes' in insufficient. [/QUOTE]
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