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<blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 8023717" data-attributes="member: 7016699">Then I'll try to explain them more fully. This may be another instance where we fail to communicate because our starting points are far enough apart that the same thing looks different to us.So, I've been in groups that did dungeon-crawl-ish adventures effectively backward--we found what was supposed to be the exit and went in through it and jumped the Big Boss while we were fresh, then crawled our way out. If the GM had had us go in through the exit and find Room 1A (or however it was keyed) so we had to encounter the elements of the dungeon in the order he wanted (or at least that the writers expected), that would have been along the lines of not allowing the PCs to own the story.So, yes, I was talking about my own methods, here. I don't map down to the room very often.If you're seeing tension between my talking about &quot;if it's been mapped&quot; here and my comments about my own approach to (barely) mapping, that's probably because I was talking more broadly, to include the possibility that the GM might map in that sort of detail. The mention of the PCs having encountered it previously was intended to convey that it was already an established fact in the fiction.So, I'm guessing the tension you see between this and the first thing you quoted comes to this: You think there's a big difference in player agency between (A) the PC's skill check determines whether the player gets to declare [FACT] and (B) the PC's skill check determines whether the GM reveals [FACT]; I don't.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="prabe, post: 8023717, member: 7016699"] Then I'll try to explain them more fully. This may be another instance where we fail to communicate because our starting points are far enough apart that the same thing looks different to us. So, I've been in groups that did dungeon-crawl-ish adventures effectively backward--we found what was supposed to be the exit and went in through it and jumped the Big Boss while we were fresh, then crawled our way out. If the GM had had us go in through the exit and find Room 1A (or however it was keyed) so we had to encounter the elements of the dungeon in the order he wanted (or at least that the writers expected), that would have been along the lines of not allowing the PCs to own the story. So, yes, I was talking about my own methods, here. I don't map down to the room very often. If you're seeing tension between my talking about "if it's been mapped" here and my comments about my own approach to (barely) mapping, that's probably because I was talking more broadly, to include the possibility that the GM might map in that sort of detail. The mention of the PCs having encountered it previously was intended to convey that it was already an established fact in the fiction. So, I'm guessing the tension you see between this and the first thing you quoted comes to this: You think there's a big difference in player agency between (A) the PC's skill check determines whether the player gets to declare [FACT] and (B) the PC's skill check determines whether the GM reveals [FACT]; I don't. [/QUOTE]

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