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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 8024251" data-attributes="member: 7016699"><p>There was one group that did it enough that I'm reluctant to say it was consistently coincidental. There was almost certainly some interaction going on between the writers of those adventures and the minds of the players. While I can't say years later whether there was intent, I do remember it being a pattern.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This was in one of Paizo's Adventure Paths, and these dungeon-ish sections had clear Big Bosses. My point is that our decisions mattered, at least in deciding the order of events--in principle it might have been possible to slip out after killing the Bosses, but I remember there being at least one group (metagame) decision that that would have been long-term detrimental (earning fewer XP than expected).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think that the player whose action resolution reveals a GM-determined fact still has agency over the content of the fiction, including their decision to attempt that action and their decisions and actions afterward. In many games (at least the ones I GM) where the GM determines facts to be revealed, the PCs choose which goal/s they are pursuing. It seems to me that you believe that if a player cannot declare facts, they have no agency over the fiction; I disagree. Having read through Blades in the Dark and Apocalypse World, I think I'd feel as though I had more agency as a player in a well-run game of D&D 5E than either, which I realize is practically heresy (and note that it's not based on actual play experience).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="prabe, post: 8024251, member: 7016699"] There was one group that did it enough that I'm reluctant to say it was consistently coincidental. There was almost certainly some interaction going on between the writers of those adventures and the minds of the players. While I can't say years later whether there was intent, I do remember it being a pattern. This was in one of Paizo's Adventure Paths, and these dungeon-ish sections had clear Big Bosses. My point is that our decisions mattered, at least in deciding the order of events--in principle it might have been possible to slip out after killing the Bosses, but I remember there being at least one group (metagame) decision that that would have been long-term detrimental (earning fewer XP than expected). I think that the player whose action resolution reveals a GM-determined fact still has agency over the content of the fiction, including their decision to attempt that action and their decisions and actions afterward. In many games (at least the ones I GM) where the GM determines facts to be revealed, the PCs choose which goal/s they are pursuing. It seems to me that you believe that if a player cannot declare facts, they have no agency over the fiction; I disagree. Having read through Blades in the Dark and Apocalypse World, I think I'd feel as though I had more agency as a player in a well-run game of D&D 5E than either, which I realize is practically heresy (and note that it's not based on actual play experience). [/QUOTE]
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