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Realistic Consequences vs Gameplay
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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8025710" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>[USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER]</p><p></p><p>There were several people who remarked that the way Apocalypse World instructed you to run the game was not novel - that they had been doing so all along. In the context of roleplaying game design I think it was fairly novel to see it enumerated in text. The agenda and principles it lays out are almost directly opposed to established wisdom enumerated in games like AD&D Second Edition, Vampire - The Masquerade, Legend of the Five Rings, et al. What little direction Fifth Edition provides does not point to that type of agenda. It is not the agenda of Burning Wheel. It is not the agenda of B/X.</p><p></p><p>Here's what Apocalypse World has to say about how to read it's text:</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's pretty explicit that it is offering instruction rather than advice. Some people will always assume that they know how to play and run roleplaying games and pretty much ignore the text. I am pretty much not interesting in playing any game with that sort of person. Besides if instruction on how to play the game is taken as mere guidelines we might as well give up on game design as it pertains to roleplaying games. In that case we are all pretty much playing one game with different coats of paint. I find that beyond boring.</p><p></p><p>I think what these enumerated agenda, principles, et al. do is set expectations for play. If I am a player in an Apocalypse World game and I think the GM is not acting being a fan of the player's characters during or after the session it is socially acceptable to bring that up. A year or so ago I was in a Blades in the Dark game that I initially enjoyed, but could tell based on the way the GM was adjudicating consequences that and setting position/effect that they were pulling for certain outcomes mostly to deliver a level of power fantasy for the other players. I was able to have a fruitful discussion about play expectations. Ultimately that GM opted to let everyone know they were basically hacking the game and I stepped out.</p><p></p><p>That's the other thing. When the machinery of play is transparent it becomes really easy to tell when GM Force is being applied. Because there is no hidden layer of rules that players are not privy too there is nothing to hide behind. Any game that has a meaningful GM role is going to provide them with enough latitude to exert pressure towards certain outcomes if they run a game without discipline. Stripping away that obfuscating layer makes it hard to apply GM Force in an artful (deceptive) manner.</p><p></p><p>The final thing is that the rules will fight you when you try. The ability of a player in Apocalypse World to get real actionable information about what is going on in the fiction can not be overstated. You have no ability to change target numbers or fudge dice. You are bound by player moves.</p><p></p><p>So the most common issue I see in Powered by the Apocalypse games are GMs being too soft. A common refrain at our tables is "That was your hard move?"</p><p></p><p>Note: Not trying to convince you it is the game for you. I expect it is most likely not.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8025710, member: 16586"] [USER=7016699]@prabe[/USER] There were several people who remarked that the way Apocalypse World instructed you to run the game was not novel - that they had been doing so all along. In the context of roleplaying game design I think it was fairly novel to see it enumerated in text. The agenda and principles it lays out are almost directly opposed to established wisdom enumerated in games like AD&D Second Edition, Vampire - The Masquerade, Legend of the Five Rings, et al. What little direction Fifth Edition provides does not point to that type of agenda. It is not the agenda of Burning Wheel. It is not the agenda of B/X. Here's what Apocalypse World has to say about how to read it's text: It's pretty explicit that it is offering instruction rather than advice. Some people will always assume that they know how to play and run roleplaying games and pretty much ignore the text. I am pretty much not interesting in playing any game with that sort of person. Besides if instruction on how to play the game is taken as mere guidelines we might as well give up on game design as it pertains to roleplaying games. In that case we are all pretty much playing one game with different coats of paint. I find that beyond boring. I think what these enumerated agenda, principles, et al. do is set expectations for play. If I am a player in an Apocalypse World game and I think the GM is not acting being a fan of the player's characters during or after the session it is socially acceptable to bring that up. A year or so ago I was in a Blades in the Dark game that I initially enjoyed, but could tell based on the way the GM was adjudicating consequences that and setting position/effect that they were pulling for certain outcomes mostly to deliver a level of power fantasy for the other players. I was able to have a fruitful discussion about play expectations. Ultimately that GM opted to let everyone know they were basically hacking the game and I stepped out. That's the other thing. When the machinery of play is transparent it becomes really easy to tell when GM Force is being applied. Because there is no hidden layer of rules that players are not privy too there is nothing to hide behind. Any game that has a meaningful GM role is going to provide them with enough latitude to exert pressure towards certain outcomes if they run a game without discipline. Stripping away that obfuscating layer makes it hard to apply GM Force in an artful (deceptive) manner. The final thing is that the rules will fight you when you try. The ability of a player in Apocalypse World to get real actionable information about what is going on in the fiction can not be overstated. You have no ability to change target numbers or fudge dice. You are bound by player moves. So the most common issue I see in Powered by the Apocalypse games are GMs being too soft. A common refrain at our tables is "That was your hard move?" Note: Not trying to convince you it is the game for you. I expect it is most likely not. [/QUOTE]
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