Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Really concerned about class design
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7865088" data-attributes="member: 2525"><p>Here's 7.</p><p></p><p>1) It makes multi-class combinations which are unbalanced more difficult to predict as the number of classes (as opposed to sub-classes) increase;</p><p></p><p>2) Any themes it contains which overlap with existing themes from other classes will dilute those other classes;</p><p></p><p>3) It establishes psionics as equal importance to magic (after campaigns have run for sometimes 6 years with little psionics) which can upend setting themes where psionics are not of equal importance to magic - making them subclasses allows a lot more control over how prominent they are as their own separate "thing" in the setting because it eases in through only a few level touchstones, but a separate class would establish it across all 20 levels and be much more noticeable and therefore more prone to breaking the verisimilitude of established campaigns. And while yes a DM can always control their setting, it's more complicated when you use rotating DMs where one likes Psionics more than the other, or where a DM wants his players to enjoy the use of new books they buy and tries hard to incorporate it but has more difficulty absorbing a full class on a new theme as opposed to a subclass.</p><p></p><p>4) It increases the odds of option paralysis, where the number of choices presented by a subclass is significantly fewer than the increasing the number of classes and therefore it's own subclasses.</p><p></p><p>5) It increases the odds you will have a problem of the haves vs the have-nots in games. When new subclasses are introduced this can be a minor issue, but they're still just new sub-themes to existing classes which are typically viewed as not game-altering in nature as "the new hotness" that players who cannot afford that book might want. However a new class, with it's own sub-classes, risks it being more of a major issue where the prominence of the theme can be viewed as "the new hotness" and therefore cause a sense of inequality in the game when some players might want to enjoy that material but cannot access it / afford it (and while you might suggest they can just borrow it, that has it's own equality dynamics - people cannot afford something don't like admitting they cannot afford it, and might feel embarrassed asking to borrow it, and might feel compelled to spend money on it they don't have because of those feelings).</p><p></p><p>6) Psion as it's own class isn't as popular, according to the Data WOTC has access to and you do not, than using them as a sub-class. Giving more people what they want is a good thing.</p><p></p><p>7) I don't want a full-class Psion (anymore) and spending limited time and resources working on something I don't want them to work on means they cannot spend that limited time and resources working on something I do want them to work on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 7865088, member: 2525"] Here's 7. 1) It makes multi-class combinations which are unbalanced more difficult to predict as the number of classes (as opposed to sub-classes) increase; 2) Any themes it contains which overlap with existing themes from other classes will dilute those other classes; 3) It establishes psionics as equal importance to magic (after campaigns have run for sometimes 6 years with little psionics) which can upend setting themes where psionics are not of equal importance to magic - making them subclasses allows a lot more control over how prominent they are as their own separate "thing" in the setting because it eases in through only a few level touchstones, but a separate class would establish it across all 20 levels and be much more noticeable and therefore more prone to breaking the verisimilitude of established campaigns. And while yes a DM can always control their setting, it's more complicated when you use rotating DMs where one likes Psionics more than the other, or where a DM wants his players to enjoy the use of new books they buy and tries hard to incorporate it but has more difficulty absorbing a full class on a new theme as opposed to a subclass. 4) It increases the odds of option paralysis, where the number of choices presented by a subclass is significantly fewer than the increasing the number of classes and therefore it's own subclasses. 5) It increases the odds you will have a problem of the haves vs the have-nots in games. When new subclasses are introduced this can be a minor issue, but they're still just new sub-themes to existing classes which are typically viewed as not game-altering in nature as "the new hotness" that players who cannot afford that book might want. However a new class, with it's own sub-classes, risks it being more of a major issue where the prominence of the theme can be viewed as "the new hotness" and therefore cause a sense of inequality in the game when some players might want to enjoy that material but cannot access it / afford it (and while you might suggest they can just borrow it, that has it's own equality dynamics - people cannot afford something don't like admitting they cannot afford it, and might feel embarrassed asking to borrow it, and might feel compelled to spend money on it they don't have because of those feelings). 6) Psion as it's own class isn't as popular, according to the Data WOTC has access to and you do not, than using them as a sub-class. Giving more people what they want is a good thing. 7) I don't want a full-class Psion (anymore) and spending limited time and resources working on something I don't want them to work on means they cannot spend that limited time and resources working on something I do want them to work on. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Really concerned about class design
Top