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Really, how important is the system/edition?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 4945295" data-attributes="member: 3887"><p>I think you're seeing qualifiers where I didn't intend any. All I was saying was that's it's easier to substitute simple and informal means for adjudicating player actions (ie, the DM's common sense or a 50/50 roll) than it is to create complex and formal rules for adjudicating player actions at the table. I suppose the thing I left unstated was the assumption that RPG rules are primarily systems for adjudicating player actions. </p><p></p><p>And I'm not sure where you got the idea I was excluding subtle adjustments to rules-complexity. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what you mean by this (thus I'm not sure it's relevant). </p><p></p><p></p><p>What are you criteria for "true (bolded) optionality"? The way I ran 3e, and currently run 4e, the skill system is optional. I use it when needed, to the extent it's needed, thus I consider it optional. My players are fine with this. Can it get <em>more</em> optional? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Are you speaking from experience or merely offering conjecture? My experience of running 3e for several years was that my players freely consented to suspending, tossing, or modifying the rules.</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's certainly possible to enjoy the fiddly bits in moderation (again, this is my experience of the bulk of the 3e era). </p><p></p><p></p><p>That's just it... my group <em>likes</em> those things --well, except for the magic item economy-- but we <em>also</em> like more old-school, free-form play, where player actions are adjudicated primarily by good DM judgment (fiat can be such a loaded term). It's not either/or. And it's easier to achieve "rules-lightness" on the fly, as the mood strikes us, then to do the reverse. </p><p></p><p>Which was my initial point, if you recall...</p><p></p><p></p><p>re: LL and other games of it's kind... they don't have the fiddly bits we enjoy (in moderation). That makes them a poor choice for (most of) my group.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 4945295, member: 3887"] I think you're seeing qualifiers where I didn't intend any. All I was saying was that's it's easier to substitute simple and informal means for adjudicating player actions (ie, the DM's common sense or a 50/50 roll) than it is to create complex and formal rules for adjudicating player actions at the table. I suppose the thing I left unstated was the assumption that RPG rules are primarily systems for adjudicating player actions. And I'm not sure where you got the idea I was excluding subtle adjustments to rules-complexity. I'm not sure what you mean by this (thus I'm not sure it's relevant). What are you criteria for "true (bolded) optionality"? The way I ran 3e, and currently run 4e, the skill system is optional. I use it when needed, to the extent it's needed, thus I consider it optional. My players are fine with this. Can it get [i]more[/i] optional? Are you speaking from experience or merely offering conjecture? My experience of running 3e for several years was that my players freely consented to suspending, tossing, or modifying the rules. It's certainly possible to enjoy the fiddly bits in moderation (again, this is my experience of the bulk of the 3e era). That's just it... my group [i]likes[/i] those things --well, except for the magic item economy-- but we [i]also[/i] like more old-school, free-form play, where player actions are adjudicated primarily by good DM judgment (fiat can be such a loaded term). It's not either/or. And it's easier to achieve "rules-lightness" on the fly, as the mood strikes us, then to do the reverse. Which was my initial point, if you recall... re: LL and other games of it's kind... they don't have the fiddly bits we enjoy (in moderation). That makes them a poor choice for (most of) my group. [/QUOTE]
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