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REALLY What Was So Bad About 2nd Edition?
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<blockquote data-quote="7thlvlDM" data-source="post: 210124" data-attributes="member: 1081"><p></p><p></p><p>Colonel (can I call you Colonel? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />),</p><p></p><p>I guess I don't quite equate the ability to min/max with balance; maybe my concept of those terms is different/wrong. I think people should be able to make advantageous builds by finding combinations that work well together, for example, Whirlwind and a spiked chain, or trip attacks and a reach weapon. However, I don't like to see aspects of the game that are useless. If the designers had made Toughness a mediocre feat, yet made it the prerequisite of something really good (like Dragon's Toughness), then I would say the feat is balanced because there is a good combination that includes it and people would choose it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I definately agree that fighting is not the be all and end all of balance. From my experience, however, I don't think I have evaluated favored enemies and ranger spells incorrectly. My group's ranger as fought his favored enemy once in the past 6 months of playing. It's not that I avoid throwing Giants at him, it's just that they haven't come up. And I believe Paladins have the same problem as far as spells are concerned. I see spells like Greater Magic Weapon that look good at first sight, but then I realize that a Paladin's caster level is 1/2 his character level (so the spell really gives him +1 per 6 character levels, and most 12th level characters will already have a +2 weapon, etc.)</p><p></p><p>There are role-playing reasons to play a Wizard as well. I just think that no matter your tastes, you should be equal in power.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>But how many times per day do you really see most skills being used, besides Spot and Listen? It could be argued that spells can be tailored to the situation given one nights sleep--but you're stuck with your skill choices. I think in the limited dungeon setting, the nonreplenishable spells are in balance with skills and feats. But in general, if you're going to lay siege to a castle, plan an assassination/rescue, travel great distances, break into the king's vault, charm your way into high society, solve the mystery of 3 dead farmers, build a magical stronghold, etc., spells own. And anyone with access to infinite spells (theoretically) is obscenely powerful.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I guess that's my definition of imbalanced. Both underpowered and overpowered.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>True. But WotC makes their share of bad designs too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think it is good design to force people to choose between getting useful powers now and having them obsolete in the future vs. putting off getting a power until the ultimate version becomes available (at say 17th level).</p><p></p><p>All options should be appealing, just like a straight ranger character should be viable. Maybe its close enough for some, but I think if there is a general concensess that a problem exists with a certain class/feat/spell etc., attemps should be made to fix it.</p><p></p><p>-7th</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="7thlvlDM, post: 210124, member: 1081"] [B][/B] Colonel (can I call you Colonel? :)), I guess I don't quite equate the ability to min/max with balance; maybe my concept of those terms is different/wrong. I think people should be able to make advantageous builds by finding combinations that work well together, for example, Whirlwind and a spiked chain, or trip attacks and a reach weapon. However, I don't like to see aspects of the game that are useless. If the designers had made Toughness a mediocre feat, yet made it the prerequisite of something really good (like Dragon's Toughness), then I would say the feat is balanced because there is a good combination that includes it and people would choose it. [B][/B] I definately agree that fighting is not the be all and end all of balance. From my experience, however, I don't think I have evaluated favored enemies and ranger spells incorrectly. My group's ranger as fought his favored enemy once in the past 6 months of playing. It's not that I avoid throwing Giants at him, it's just that they haven't come up. And I believe Paladins have the same problem as far as spells are concerned. I see spells like Greater Magic Weapon that look good at first sight, but then I realize that a Paladin's caster level is 1/2 his character level (so the spell really gives him +1 per 6 character levels, and most 12th level characters will already have a +2 weapon, etc.) There are role-playing reasons to play a Wizard as well. I just think that no matter your tastes, you should be equal in power. [B][/B] But how many times per day do you really see most skills being used, besides Spot and Listen? It could be argued that spells can be tailored to the situation given one nights sleep--but you're stuck with your skill choices. I think in the limited dungeon setting, the nonreplenishable spells are in balance with skills and feats. But in general, if you're going to lay siege to a castle, plan an assassination/rescue, travel great distances, break into the king's vault, charm your way into high society, solve the mystery of 3 dead farmers, build a magical stronghold, etc., spells own. And anyone with access to infinite spells (theoretically) is obscenely powerful. [B][/B] I guess that's my definition of imbalanced. Both underpowered and overpowered. [B][/B] True. But WotC makes their share of bad designs too. I don't think it is good design to force people to choose between getting useful powers now and having them obsolete in the future vs. putting off getting a power until the ultimate version becomes available (at say 17th level). All options should be appealing, just like a straight ranger character should be viable. Maybe its close enough for some, but I think if there is a general concensess that a problem exists with a certain class/feat/spell etc., attemps should be made to fix it. -7th [/QUOTE]
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