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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gothic_Demon" data-source="post: 2543932" data-attributes="member: 19828">If it were this easy, there'd never be a Paladin in existence in any game setting anywhere. Orcus would simply stroll up to the gates of every castle and city in the land, little girl in tow, and demand every Paladin in the city come down this instant and throw themselves upon their swords, or he'll kill the little girl.Then he'd probably drown the little girl in the blood of all the stupid, dead Paladins.I agree with intent, but that hardly changes the situation. A Paladin who refused to carry a little girl out of a burning building, in case she weighed him down, has certainly thought solely about his own hide over that of an innocent. But a Paladin being forced to kill himself for another? That's a whole bigger kettle of fish. As people have already suggested, there are ways (guilt being a very good method) of having the Paladin believe he has fallen. As a further suggestion, how about a Paladin who seems like s/he should have fallen, but hasn't. Wenching, drinking binges, bad manners, awful rude behaviour; a gruff exterior that hides a heart of gold and genuine desire to bring peace and defeat evil.</blockquote>