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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 5940476" data-attributes="member: 7635">I always answer these threads by reminding everyone that if you boil everything down to its core, they end up either "hits you with sword", "blasts you with magic" or "does a little of both." With the right combination of skills, feats, multi-classing and spell selection, you can mimic every D&D class the game has ever produced with two classes. Ergo, there is no need for any class beyond "warrior", "caster" and a generous selection of feats and spells. That leads us to the next question: if we want more than two classes*, what criteria do we use to determine if its worth putting in. Dynamic mechanics? Viable archetype? Popularity? Uniqueness? Something else? The answer need not be the same for each class, mind you. For example, the sorcerer has a mechanical niche (spontaneous casting vs. prep) and some flavor/archetype going (innate magic in the blood) but you can really argue if they're really all that unique from wizards. Likewise, a monk has a strong unique niche and very dynamic mechanics, but his archetype is limiting to those who allow some form of Eastern mysticism in their game. Do either of these classes deserve space in the PHB? The point of this is that almost every class has its detractors (even my beloved rogue/thief, one of the core four, has been demoted as "unneeded" by some grognards) and every class has its defenders. If Next is supposed to be the Great Compromise of the Edition Wars, it NEEDS to include them all. Even the ones you don't like, think are really kits/themes/prestige classes/etc in disguise, and wouldn't allow 10 ft from your game. This means warlords and assassins, paladins and rangers, warlocks and sorcerers, monks and barbarians, or clerics and rogues. Ergo, these debates end up just more shouting matches and frequently break out as Edition Skirmishes.Rather than ask "Is this Needed" we could better spend our time asking "How can we make this class unique, flavorful, and dynamic?" Because honestly, we're noting getting a PHB without a paladin, so lets make him the best class he can be...*and if you don't, we end this conversation here.</blockquote>

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