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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 6553517" data-attributes="member: 957">I've never claimed it is the only possibility.  But I am questioning how the low (currently zero advertised) output is a good possibility.  Your answer seems to be to say that things that have had success might not be good enough, therefore "Abracadabra"And WotC only stopped producing new material because........ Obviously it already has.  But what happens two years from now?My god, if it ISN'T #1 next quarter I'll be shocked.  It is still new shinyHey, everyone come look at Hussar putting words in my mouth.     (deja vu)What I will say is that people will play games they like.  It is a much more complicated process when comparing people choosing between two games they like.  (Which isn't to say that the 5E/PF balance is a fair assessment of either game, there are lots of other factors here)4E started out the gate losing a ton of D&D players.   These are not 4E players, these are former D&D players that never embraced 4E to begin with.  (the ones 4E fans said were not needed).  So those players don't fit the PF to 5E transition.  No one is lining up to play 5E because a radical change in PF alienated them.Second, and again by your own statements, 4E lost fans quick.  You said that 2 years to the Essentials "reboot" and then two years after Essentials. was a "failure".  Burn-out is normal for any game.  I agree with you that the rate of player burn-out observed for 4E was bad.  If some people are now going to 5E from PF then THAT would have some equivalence.    But, first, I'm not sure that a a great portion of the 4E burn-outs were necessarily going to PF.  Maybe so, but I never got the impression.  And second, 6+ years (plus beta plus it was a recycled game) is a vastly more reasonable time period for burn-out.  So I don't see much comparison.I have long and repeatedly stated that 4E is a AWESOME game for a target portion of the fan base.   I did say that it was sub-par for much of the overall fan base.  That is a very important clarification.Five years from now Pathfinder will still be on my shelf and just as awesome as ever.  If 5E expands and grows and gets better and better, we can assume for sake of argument that it is demonstrably better at providing the gaming experience that a majority of the fan base want.  In that case 5E will have moved the bar and by the new standard PF as it currently exists will have become sub-par and the success of it will follow.The intrinsic awesomeness of both 4E and PF will be unchanged and individual players and groups will still prefer them for a range of very sound reasons.  But if another game dominates them in delivering what fans want, then that will be the new "par".</blockquote>

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