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Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 6558385" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>OK, since you ignored my direct question to you...</p><p></p><p>I'm going to assume you like the 5th edition or you wouldn't be here so much complaining about it. Which means that based on your apparent philosophy, WotC just got lucky and made a great game by accident because they don't care about RPGs, all they care about is themselves.</p><p></p><p>Yes, I'm being disingenuous. But I think this position is a load of crap. Paizo and every other company exists to make money. If the guys at Paizo had to do it for free, then they'd be working someplace else instead.</p><p></p><p>What you (and others) are really trying to get to is that Paizo is a small publisher that doesn't have to answer to a larger corporate entity.</p><p></p><p>Fair enough, but there are benefits and risks to having to report to a group that may not have the same enthusiasm about your niche in a hobby market. I'd have to argue that if all Hasbro wanted was the brand, then the game would have been gone altogether a long time ago. Because as has been pointed out before, the profits of TTRPG are a drop in the bucket to their other lines.</p><p></p><p>Here's the thing, though. A small bucket of consistent profits is still a small bucket. But if it's consistent, it's still profits. And profits is what matters. And if the parent company understands that it's a niche market and that division needs to be run by a group of people that are in, love, and understand that market, then they're happy to leave them alone and let them keep generating their small but consistent profits. As I've said before, when somebody like Hasbro looks at a company, they aren't looking for sales figures, but profits. If your line can produce 40%, 50% or more in profits, you're in a good place. If you're producing a product that's covering 7%, 10%, maybe not. A small margin works for a small company. But I think that D&D is still producing a profit margin they are happy with, so they leave it alone. </p><p></p><p>So I think that the core team at Wizards really does love gaming and love what they do, and they really are trying to put together the best game they can. Yes they also have to ensure that the bottom line meets Hasbro's goals. But those aren't mutually exclusive.</p><p></p><p>I think that they've hit a home run with this version of the rules. More importantly I think they learned a huge lesson from the 4th edition - instead of trying to change the rules to appeal to a wider audience (particularly the computer gaming audience), tie the products together. Some people will make the jump from one market to the other, others won't. So instead of a rules system that's designed to appeal to computer gamers, we have computer games, TTRPGs, some online comics, and probably in the future novels, tying together these different markets. This is a massive shift in thinking that allows the TTRPG to live in its own space without having to worry about the same type of interference as before.</p><p></p><p>My take? I think they (Hasbro and WotC) are eyeing the success of the Marvel Universe. How they've branched out into different mediums that appeal to different segments of the market to make money off of a brand instead of a product that will never appeal to everybody. Not everybody likes comics. Not everybody likes TTRPGs. Instead of trying to convert them, bring the content to them. And guess what, I'll bet it grows the TTRPG business too.</p><p></p><p>In other words, focus on the core gamers because they are the ones that are most important. Bringing in the new gamers is important, but doesn't happen if the core gamers aren't promoting the game. So the focus is on making the core gamers happy, which is a bit of a turn-around from the 4th edition.</p><p></p><p>Now where have I heard that before? Oh yeah...here:</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2014/08/21/selling-the-new-dungeons-dragons/" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2014/08/21/selling-the-new-dungeons-dragons/</a></p><p></p><p>Ilbranteloth</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 6558385, member: 6778044"] OK, since you ignored my direct question to you... I'm going to assume you like the 5th edition or you wouldn't be here so much complaining about it. Which means that based on your apparent philosophy, WotC just got lucky and made a great game by accident because they don't care about RPGs, all they care about is themselves. Yes, I'm being disingenuous. But I think this position is a load of crap. Paizo and every other company exists to make money. If the guys at Paizo had to do it for free, then they'd be working someplace else instead. What you (and others) are really trying to get to is that Paizo is a small publisher that doesn't have to answer to a larger corporate entity. Fair enough, but there are benefits and risks to having to report to a group that may not have the same enthusiasm about your niche in a hobby market. I'd have to argue that if all Hasbro wanted was the brand, then the game would have been gone altogether a long time ago. Because as has been pointed out before, the profits of TTRPG are a drop in the bucket to their other lines. Here's the thing, though. A small bucket of consistent profits is still a small bucket. But if it's consistent, it's still profits. And profits is what matters. And if the parent company understands that it's a niche market and that division needs to be run by a group of people that are in, love, and understand that market, then they're happy to leave them alone and let them keep generating their small but consistent profits. As I've said before, when somebody like Hasbro looks at a company, they aren't looking for sales figures, but profits. If your line can produce 40%, 50% or more in profits, you're in a good place. If you're producing a product that's covering 7%, 10%, maybe not. A small margin works for a small company. But I think that D&D is still producing a profit margin they are happy with, so they leave it alone. So I think that the core team at Wizards really does love gaming and love what they do, and they really are trying to put together the best game they can. Yes they also have to ensure that the bottom line meets Hasbro's goals. But those aren't mutually exclusive. I think that they've hit a home run with this version of the rules. More importantly I think they learned a huge lesson from the 4th edition - instead of trying to change the rules to appeal to a wider audience (particularly the computer gaming audience), tie the products together. Some people will make the jump from one market to the other, others won't. So instead of a rules system that's designed to appeal to computer gamers, we have computer games, TTRPGs, some online comics, and probably in the future novels, tying together these different markets. This is a massive shift in thinking that allows the TTRPG to live in its own space without having to worry about the same type of interference as before. My take? I think they (Hasbro and WotC) are eyeing the success of the Marvel Universe. How they've branched out into different mediums that appeal to different segments of the market to make money off of a brand instead of a product that will never appeal to everybody. Not everybody likes comics. Not everybody likes TTRPGs. Instead of trying to convert them, bring the content to them. And guess what, I'll bet it grows the TTRPG business too. In other words, focus on the core gamers because they are the ones that are most important. Bringing in the new gamers is important, but doesn't happen if the core gamers aren't promoting the game. So the focus is on making the core gamers happy, which is a bit of a turn-around from the 4th edition. Now where have I heard that before? Oh yeah...here: [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2014/08/21/selling-the-new-dungeons-dragons/[/url] Ilbranteloth [/QUOTE]
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