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Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning
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<blockquote data-quote="Kramodlog" data-source="post: 6567222" data-attributes="member: 55961"><p>If you want to make this about semantics, this part is over. </p><p></p><p>Yes. </p><p></p><p>Heh. First, it is interesting how words chosen are used to frame narratives. "3.5's books were selling less and less" while "4e didn't reach objectives". </p><p></p><p>But this argumentative strategy really just obfuscates the real issues. The rise of World of Warcraft and the drain it had on the RPG industry (according to Ryan Dancey), a VP of Hasbro who wanted MOAR(!) and 4e's content and the displeasure it created. </p><p></p><p>The Tome of Battle was an experimental product. A delve into what 4e could be. I have no idea on the ToB's sells figures. WotC never shared them. If you have info, please share, cause right now you seem to invent stuff. What I do know is that it was much talked about. It was praised, but there was one critic kept returning, it lacked playtesting and needed more developement. </p><p></p><p>3.75? It worked very well for Paizo, don't you think? What about a big and long public playtest, like 5e had? Seems to have turned out well.</p><p></p><p>4e's problem wasn't that it was critiqued. It was that its content was terrible. If you want to be a revisionnist of sort and say that it was trolls who hurt 4e, this conversation is going no where fast. </p><p></p><p>Many tables were already playing 3e before it was published!? Where did you read that? </p><p></p><p>They probed a lot of gamers before launching 3e, according to Dancey. Lots of metrics. They wanted to know what to do. What worked, what didn't. Not sure this was done with 4e. As I pointed out they focused a lot on what designers thought was good and what made their jobs easier. When Morrus* was invited to play the first playtest of 5e, he got a chance to question Mearls on the 4e playtest info they sent WotC. Mearls was evasive about what they did with the feedback. </p><p></p><p>Words used to frame narratives again. You use evolution, I use divorce. A divorce from mechanics, fluff and traditions. Considering that some podcasts had 4e's designers saying that they put a bullet in the head of a X, I'm more incline to use the word divorce. Maybe they thought a divorce was a great way to do things. I just think they were arrogant and thought brand loyalty was super strong. In others words they took fans for granted and felt they could do anything they wanted. It is a bit of an exageration, but you get the gist of it.</p><p></p><p>Or they were just arrogant and took us for granted. The backlash sure seems to indicate that. Why was there a such strong backlash, according to you? Why the schism in fans (Mearls' words)?</p><p></p><p>Somehow, 3.75... I mean Pathfinder's success would indicate otherwise. That 3.5 didn't meet a VP's criterias is a different animal.</p><p></p><p>*I think it was him, but it might be someone else. I remember reading the article on ENworld right after 4e was cancelled and the playtest of 5e started. It was released in January of 2012, I believe.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kramodlog, post: 6567222, member: 55961"] If you want to make this about semantics, this part is over. Yes. Heh. First, it is interesting how words chosen are used to frame narratives. "3.5's books were selling less and less" while "4e didn't reach objectives". But this argumentative strategy really just obfuscates the real issues. The rise of World of Warcraft and the drain it had on the RPG industry (according to Ryan Dancey), a VP of Hasbro who wanted MOAR(!) and 4e's content and the displeasure it created. The Tome of Battle was an experimental product. A delve into what 4e could be. I have no idea on the ToB's sells figures. WotC never shared them. If you have info, please share, cause right now you seem to invent stuff. What I do know is that it was much talked about. It was praised, but there was one critic kept returning, it lacked playtesting and needed more developement. 3.75? It worked very well for Paizo, don't you think? What about a big and long public playtest, like 5e had? Seems to have turned out well. 4e's problem wasn't that it was critiqued. It was that its content was terrible. If you want to be a revisionnist of sort and say that it was trolls who hurt 4e, this conversation is going no where fast. Many tables were already playing 3e before it was published!? Where did you read that? They probed a lot of gamers before launching 3e, according to Dancey. Lots of metrics. They wanted to know what to do. What worked, what didn't. Not sure this was done with 4e. As I pointed out they focused a lot on what designers thought was good and what made their jobs easier. When Morrus* was invited to play the first playtest of 5e, he got a chance to question Mearls on the 4e playtest info they sent WotC. Mearls was evasive about what they did with the feedback. Words used to frame narratives again. You use evolution, I use divorce. A divorce from mechanics, fluff and traditions. Considering that some podcasts had 4e's designers saying that they put a bullet in the head of a X, I'm more incline to use the word divorce. Maybe they thought a divorce was a great way to do things. I just think they were arrogant and thought brand loyalty was super strong. In others words they took fans for granted and felt they could do anything they wanted. It is a bit of an exageration, but you get the gist of it. Or they were just arrogant and took us for granted. The backlash sure seems to indicate that. Why was there a such strong backlash, according to you? Why the schism in fans (Mearls' words)? Somehow, 3.75... I mean Pathfinder's success would indicate otherwise. That 3.5 didn't meet a VP's criterias is a different animal. *I think it was him, but it might be someone else. I remember reading the article on ENworld right after 4e was cancelled and the playtest of 5e started. It was released in January of 2012, I believe. [/QUOTE]
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