Rebuilding the Battle Sorcerer

[Nellisir]

I'm ripping apart and rebuilding classes for a new campaign setting, and I've gotten so turned around I'm not sure what's balanced and what's way out of whack anymore.

So...the battle sorcerer has d8 hit points, cleric BAB, Intimidate instead of Bluff, -1 spells cast per day per level, and -1 spells known per level; otherwise as standard sorcerer.

What do people think is fair & balanced?
-1- As is.
-2- Add +1 spell per level and +1 spells known per level, but spells must be from a "sorcerer domain" (1 spell of each level, no domain power).
-3- As 2 above, but sorcerer has choice of two domains.
-4- As 2 above, but sorcerer has choice of two domains. One is favored and added to spells known, spells from the secondary domain can only be cast via the bonus spells (limiting each to no more than once per day, or 0 if the appropriate spell slot is expended with a spell from the favored domain).
-5- As 3, but without the bonus spell slots and spells known (REALLY cuts down on choice; certainly not my preferred option).

-6- What if you take the familiar out of the question?
-7- What if you make the familiar more powerful?

-8- What if wizards had d6 hit points and bards had d8?

Thanks!
Nell.

 

[Nifft]

The strength of the Battle Sorcerer depends on your ability scores.

If you're using a "standard" 25-point-buy or rolling 4d6, it's not that strong. Why? Because you won't have the ability scores to put your enhanced class abilities to best use. If you want to take advantage of your higher BAB, ability to wear Light armor and nicer HD, you're going to have to go into combat, which means a high Dex and decent (10+) Str. If you want to hit as often as a Rogue, you'll want to take Weapon Finesse -- erp, that's one less Metamagic or Spell Focus feat.

Basically, you pay a harsh price (fewer spells known) + a modest price (fewer spells per day) for two good benefits (higher HD & ability to cast in armor) + a modest ability (3/4 BAB). Worse, with what is alleged to be a normal set of ability scores, you're going to have to sacrifice your casting stat to take advantage of these class abilities.

If you're playing in a higher-powered game, then the Battle Sorc shines stronger (along with the PsiWarrior, Paladin, Bard, Monk, etc.).

What's your baseline?

-- N

 

[Khaalis]

I agree with Nifft overall. The Battle Sorcerer is a balanced variant in its design - as is. The costs to the class vs. the benefits acquired, bring it more into line as a hybrid class. Their limited spell selection, lack of special abilities, restriction to light armor still makes them less powerful than a cleric overall, but makes them more well rounded and able to offer more to a party than their limited spell repertoire. I do not see a necessity to alter the HD of any other class with the use of the Battle Sorcerer. However, with that said – you “could” use the same premise for a Battle Wizard if you so chose for the campaign – but that would depend on the style of play you are looking for.

As for some of your other questions – if you have read any of my sorcerer threads you know that I personally hate the idea of sorcerer + familiar. I just feel that the familiar does not match the class flavor. One of my suggested changes if you really want the fury companion is to use something that makes more sense than an arcane ritual. It should be based on the sorcerers charismatic nature, which leads to using the Animal Companion mechanic rather than the “familiar”. Not ever sorcerer should be running around with a toad in their pocket. Sillyness!
Another option I am toying with and will propose soon in my own thread is a variant of the Paladin’s Pokemount ability – but for an animal companion style animal. It seems to be much more fitting that a sorcerer could summon such a companion than a paladin.

Hope my late night rambling helps some. JMHO.

 

[Liquidsabre]

The battle sorcerer is a rather balanced variant of the core sorcerer and works well for what it was designed for. Light armored fighter with a spell or two. Doesn't work too well as far as contributing members of the group however, though I've seen a fun combination with the Improved Familiar feat and a Battle Sorcerer.

I also run a variant sorc and have adapted it to the battle sorc, just the -1 spells known/lvl & -1 spells/day/lvl and the results have been well-balanced.

 

[Nellisir]

The strength of the Battle Sorcerer depends on your ability scores.
What's your baseline?
-- N

Probably 30 points. It's a fairly tough, physical setting and I anticipate a fairly aggressive campaign -- no nobles poncing around in fluffy garters and pointy slippers here!

I wasn't sure what opinions would be -- a fair number of people seem sure the sorcerer is either over- or under-powered, and I was curious to see if the sentiment extended to the base battle sorcerer.

I've made a number of changes to the other classes, but thought it'd be better to compare a "standard" battle sorcerer to the other standard classes.

The following statements concern one campaign only, not my feelings or opinions on any d20 classes in general!

My plan of the moment is to discard the sorcerer altogether and just use the battle sorcerer and wizard. I increased HD for a number of classes -- fighters went to d12, rangers (back) to d10, bards & rogues to d8, and wizards and base sorcerers to d6. This is approximately 1 extra hp per level, and done in part for aesthetic reasons -- classes with a "normal" (Humanoid default) BAB (bard/cleric/druid/rogue) now have a "normal" (Humanoid default) HD. Classes with a combat BAB (fighters, paladins, rangers, & barbarians) have HD a step higher (d10 in general), and classes with a poor BAB (wizards & base sorcerers) have HD a step lower.

Monks don't fit in the campaign, and so haven't been dealt with.

Familiars will be redone -- right now a familiar is a magical spy. Spellcasters that don't want or need a spy don't need a familiar. The only thing a familiar contributes outside of spying is the ability to deliver a touch attack -- and given the consequences of losing your familiar, my characters have never been tempted to put their familiars close enough to an enemy for that to matter. I'll probably replace most of the familiar's special abilities (not the special advancement) with generic "familiar feats", and then flesh that list out with material from UA and other sources - give casters the option of vesting a familiar with a spell, and gaining a bonus spell in exchange, etc, etc. I've also considered giving wizards some minor special ability related to staffs, a la the magister of Arcana Unearthed.

Yes, everyone's power is up a little bit (except for, so far, the cleric). But the big villains are shaping up to be frost giants, and the po' lil' PCs are starting at 3rd level, so I've still got room to slap them around a bit.

I'll post some of the revisions here in House Rules as I determine them.

Cheers!
Nell.