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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wiseblood" data-source="post: 5617082" data-attributes="member: 42437">Wow. I don't think you're being rational here. You are instead observing char-op mythologies.  3e fighter is not garbage. 3e Cleric is not Superman sans kryptonite. If you were to actually look at the bigger picture here you would see what I mean. The bigger picture being full casters are not inherently powerful. They have been allowed by poor foresight or malicious intent to have over powered spells and feats. In fights where LVL=CR of monster. The martial classes often would be 50/50 or slightly better. That is not the case with full casters after 5th level they would be in the neighborhood of 75% and top out at 95-99.99% by 20th. It is clearly a matter of broken powers and not your percieved class deficiency. You facts are subjective. 4e-3e doesn't matter much to me. I have played both and DM'ed both I'm not enamored with them. I am holding my breath that 5e will be so great that we all will look back and say. "what were we thinking?"</blockquote>