Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Rebutting a fallacy: why I await 5e (without holding my breath)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="catastrophic" data-source="post: 5619307" data-attributes="member: 81381"><p>You're the one who said that anyting but perfomance may be irelevant. Ok then, everything but performance is irelevant, crack cocaine is a better rpg than any of the ones we talk about. After all, as you said, quite literally, everything but market performance is irelevant in that scenario.</p><p> </p><p>You're the one who said it, not me.</p><p> </p><p>By this logic, is sales or return is the goal, the design who's pages are soaked in an addictive chemical is the best design. By this logic, the design that comes packaged with people's life insurance is successful in the only way that matters.</p><p> </p><p>Sales are not the only goal of a product, and certainly any given product has many, many other goals as an adjunct to sales.</p><p> </p><p>Actually, i'm getting more fun, because the whole point of good design is to do that. </p><p> </p><p>You are wroking from the assumption that game design is about fun gimmics that don't really mean anything. Hence, you can mash the gimmics from different games together, and have more fun fiddling with them and reading about them. </p><p> </p><p>But in reality, design is about creating a game which is functional as a whole, not as a pile of gimmics. The idea that you can take a game, rip bits out and combine them with another game is popular amongst hobbyists, but actual game design takes a lot more care, even when adopting things from other sources. </p><p> </p><p>You want to pretend that we can take good things from 4e, and then add bits of 3e to that. The problem is that a lot of the good things in 4e are the <em>lack of things from 3e</em> that make the game less fun, and replacement systems that <em>work better</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="catastrophic, post: 5619307, member: 81381"] You're the one who said that anyting but perfomance may be irelevant. Ok then, everything but performance is irelevant, crack cocaine is a better rpg than any of the ones we talk about. After all, as you said, quite literally, everything but market performance is irelevant in that scenario. You're the one who said it, not me. By this logic, is sales or return is the goal, the design who's pages are soaked in an addictive chemical is the best design. By this logic, the design that comes packaged with people's life insurance is successful in the only way that matters. Sales are not the only goal of a product, and certainly any given product has many, many other goals as an adjunct to sales. Actually, i'm getting more fun, because the whole point of good design is to do that. You are wroking from the assumption that game design is about fun gimmics that don't really mean anything. Hence, you can mash the gimmics from different games together, and have more fun fiddling with them and reading about them. But in reality, design is about creating a game which is functional as a whole, not as a pile of gimmics. The idea that you can take a game, rip bits out and combine them with another game is popular amongst hobbyists, but actual game design takes a lot more care, even when adopting things from other sources. You want to pretend that we can take good things from 4e, and then add bits of 3e to that. The problem is that a lot of the good things in 4e are the [I]lack of things from 3e[/I] that make the game less fun, and replacement systems that [I]work better[/I]. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Rebutting a fallacy: why I await 5e (without holding my breath)
Top