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<blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 5509661" data-attributes="member: 5834"><p>I mostly run opposing parties at high level. Prepping high level parties is more difficult in <em>Pathfinder</em> due to all the new capabilities each class has. You really have to spend time thinking out rage power schemes, fighter feat paths, and the like. Not sure why the feat list in 3.x gave you problems. It wasn't much different.</p><p></p><p>Prepping monsters is much easier than 3.x. I'll give you that.</p><p></p><p>I imagine the skill system in 3.x was much more difficult if you went by the RAW. We started going 1 for 1 on class skills very early on. So I didn't notice. I should have mentioned that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The fighter is "amped up" unless a bunch of the feats they have access to now were in the PHB2 which I never picked up.</p><p></p><p>For one, they have weapon training which means they have +4 additional to hit and damage with their best weapons. So you have to plan for that BAB while still allowing the rogue to hit.</p><p></p><p>A base fighter chance to hit absent stats is +26 at lvl 20 versus including greater weapon focus and weapon training. +22 before.</p><p></p><p>A base rogue is +16 including weapon focus.</p><p></p><p>That is a 10 point difference in BAB. Which means the fighters first two attacks hit as well as a rogue. It further marginalizes the rogue's combat capabilities and most +15 BAB classes if you want to make the fight challenging for the fighter.</p><p></p><p>The extra +4 makes Power Attack very common, which greatly increases damage.</p><p></p><p>On top of that feats like I mentioned:</p><p></p><p>1. Stunning Assault and the entire assault line: DC 10 + BAB fort save or stunned. Can be used with whirlwind attack and lunge for everything in 10 feet hit.</p><p></p><p>2. Deadly Aim: Substantially boosted archer damage. </p><p></p><p>3. APG Fighter paths: Two-handed warrior boosts damage to sickening levels.</p><p></p><p>Two-weapon warriors gives two-weapon fighters some bite back.</p><p></p><p>Even Weapon Master is pretty darn good.</p><p></p><p>4. Critical Feat Line is pretty dangerous as well: Two scimitar fighters with stunning or blinding critical can end a fight pretty quick ifthe creaure isn't immune.</p><p></p><p>5. Dazzling Display is a pretty awsome debuff fighters can use. It isn't that hard a roll if optimized. Everything within 30 feet shaken and -2 on attacks, saves, and skills is pretty substantial.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not much sure how you can claim fighters aren't amped up over 3.x. I'd say a <em>Pathfinder</em> fighter will kill a 3.x no Prc fighter 90% of the time, maybe 99% of the time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celtavian, post: 5509661, member: 5834"] I mostly run opposing parties at high level. Prepping high level parties is more difficult in [i]Pathfinder[/i] due to all the new capabilities each class has. You really have to spend time thinking out rage power schemes, fighter feat paths, and the like. Not sure why the feat list in 3.x gave you problems. It wasn't much different. Prepping monsters is much easier than 3.x. I'll give you that. I imagine the skill system in 3.x was much more difficult if you went by the RAW. We started going 1 for 1 on class skills very early on. So I didn't notice. I should have mentioned that. The fighter is "amped up" unless a bunch of the feats they have access to now were in the PHB2 which I never picked up. For one, they have weapon training which means they have +4 additional to hit and damage with their best weapons. So you have to plan for that BAB while still allowing the rogue to hit. A base fighter chance to hit absent stats is +26 at lvl 20 versus including greater weapon focus and weapon training. +22 before. A base rogue is +16 including weapon focus. That is a 10 point difference in BAB. Which means the fighters first two attacks hit as well as a rogue. It further marginalizes the rogue's combat capabilities and most +15 BAB classes if you want to make the fight challenging for the fighter. The extra +4 makes Power Attack very common, which greatly increases damage. On top of that feats like I mentioned: 1. Stunning Assault and the entire assault line: DC 10 + BAB fort save or stunned. Can be used with whirlwind attack and lunge for everything in 10 feet hit. 2. Deadly Aim: Substantially boosted archer damage. 3. APG Fighter paths: Two-handed warrior boosts damage to sickening levels. Two-weapon warriors gives two-weapon fighters some bite back. Even Weapon Master is pretty darn good. 4. Critical Feat Line is pretty dangerous as well: Two scimitar fighters with stunning or blinding critical can end a fight pretty quick ifthe creaure isn't immune. 5. Dazzling Display is a pretty awsome debuff fighters can use. It isn't that hard a roll if optimized. Everything within 30 feet shaken and -2 on attacks, saves, and skills is pretty substantial. I'm not much sure how you can claim fighters aren't amped up over 3.x. I'd say a [i]Pathfinder[/i] fighter will kill a 3.x no Prc fighter 90% of the time, maybe 99% of the time. [/QUOTE]
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