Recreating Eddings' Church Knights using the Book of the Righteous

[Volaran]

Hey there.

A friend of mine is starting up a campaign using a modified version of the world from Eddings' Elenium series. He's not the hottest on d20 mechanics, but had taken a look at my copy of BotR and had the idea to mechanically base the four orders of knights on the Holy Warrior. I'm fine with that, but it was suggested that we draft the outside help of the experts at ENWorld.

So, what I desire help with is the following:

-Three recommended domains for each order
-A recommended gift of god for each order
-A unified spell list for the orders

As I understand it, much of their magic can be drawn straight from the paladin list, but they have a bit of what might normally fall into D&D arcane magic as well (DM mentioned illusions). I have most of the WotC books, as well as Book of the Righteous and a few other third party books. This is probably the area where suggestions would be most needed.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

IIRC, Sparhawk used something similar to a weakened contagion or bestow curse at one point in the first book.

 

[Hawkeye]

I don't have the books readily available, but Knights magical abilites did not come from the God they served. Didn't they come from the Young Gods? There doesn't seem to be Domains with them. The Knights didn't seem to be different in their abilites, but there seemed to be some sort of specialization. Maybe make them a bit more like arcane casters than Divine casters, with the one order specializing in Divining or Summoning magics? Though the book speaks of the great magics that the Knights of old wielded, the Knights of Sparhawk's time don't seem to use it all that much.

 

[DreamChaser]

Eddings Elenium is hard to convert to D&D because there is no distinction between magics. They are all divine but they are all learned and cast as arcane. The specific words in Old Styric caused the god that granted the power (in the books it was Aphrael for the Pandions, but each order had their own god based on the god of the Styric who taught the spells).

I would give them arcane spells cast as a wizard. The knights never really did any healing. Their spells were more utility and combat related. More than that, not even the gods could heal some wounds (heart wounds for example). The D&D preparation never really shows up in the books but they are definitely not intuitive casters. They need the "learning" component. Give the knights the ability to ignore armor related spell failure, and your good to go.

Hope this helps.

DC

 

[Arc]

I've been considering an Eddings themed campaign for some time, and the church knights really present a problem. For the most part, they have very different specializations, which makes it very hard to balance them all equally.

It's assumed that the Pandions have the most arcane magic, and the other orders use it on occasion, but their specialties don't really match either. The Dierans get the ultra heavy armor, and the Alciones probably get some more cleric based spells (being the highly religious ones), and the Thalesian knights have a more barbarian feel to them. (forgive me for forgetting the names of some of the orders.) It would be very hard to balance Pandion magic with weapons specialization with cleric spells with barbarian skills, especially if the Church Knights are used as PrCs.

The only clear solution seems to be thus: Make each order a separate core class. A lot of time would be needed to balance it, but it would eventually solve a lot of problems.

 

[DreamChaser]

I would actually approach it a little differently.

I would make each order of knights a multiclass combo topped off with a prestige class. This would allow for a greater spread of abilities within the knights.

Pandion (your average everyday sword slinging, spellcasting knight)
Fighter and Wizard later Pandion Knight (5 levels)
F + W + F + F +W +F + W + F + F + W + PK + F + PK + W + PK + F + PK + F + PK + F
F= 10
W = 5
PK = 5

Alcione (the most "holy" of the knights)
Fighter and Cleric later Alcione Knight (5 levels)
same progression as the Pandion
F = 10
C = 5
AK = 5

Thalesian (barbarian northerners w/ a connection to trolls):
Barbarian and Wizard later Thalesian Knight (5 levels)
same progression as pandion
B = 10
W = 5
TK = 5

Dieran (Tynian was magically the most powerful of the group):
Fighter and Wizard later Dieran Knight (5 levels)
F + W + F + W + F + W + F + W + F + W + DK + F + DK + W + DK + F + DK + W + DK + F
F = 8
W = 7
DK = 5

The prestige classes would further their specializations in their weapons and grant them some new spell power. They would be the crux. It is critical that what ever they gain is worth advancing that far.

I think of this as being a reflection on why Kalton was so bad a magic. His intelligence was a little low but mostly he just never put in the practice (he skipped most of the wizard levels) and just went through the fighter part. He was a Pandion by virtue of belonging to the Order but his skills did not always reflect that.

DC

 

[DreamChaser]

btw, I tried to keep the fighter levels "even" so they gain a new feat when they finish and I tried to keep the wizard/cleric levels odd so they wouldn't end their progression between spell levels.

DC

 

[Arc]

That suggestion may work, but it will seriously hamper the character's development. Mixing wizard and fighter just doesn't seem right. Rather, a cleric style caster with a very limited spell list might be better. The order would be chosen when cleric levels are begun (your introduction to the order), and then it continue from there. This would make the knights a more effective combat force, and allow a bit more variety in casting.

To my knowledge, Tynian wasn't that great of a caster (Sparhawk used far more spells, to greater effect. Tynian simply had access to necromantic spells. Maybe that's a suggestion for spell lists?

 

[thullgrim]

Sparhawk cheated, you really can't use him as the paradigm for the Pandion Knights. I mean, he had a very direct connection to the goddess supplying them with spells, even before knowing he did, and he used it to his advantage. I really think Vanion is the paradigm for the Pandion Knights although that makes constructing prc's and actually determining their abilities more difficult because we simply don't see much of what Vanion does.

I think something like this might work:
BaB: As Fighter
Save: As Fighter, Except Alcion who get a good Will save.
HP: As Fighter
Bonus Feats: 1/4 levels from a list specific to each order
Spellcasting: As Paladin, modified for each order

As for doing it in temrs of the BoR let me get into my book and take a look...

Thull