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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 9247652" data-attributes="member: 7026617">When it applies to enough of them, just like always.I've acknowledged that was hyperbole (but noting that modelling being &quot;rules for this&quot; requires approaching it from a particular view).Because you're not everyone, and you're specifically not the people who objected to it, which as you've noted yourself is no small group.Its also trivial for people to be tempted to push them up past where they should be.&nbsp; The shapelessness of that method doesn't exactly discourage that.I ran the game, and I disagree.&nbsp; As I noted, the compression of scale helps some, but there are still clearly winners and losers when it comes to getting what you want done in play.Given&nbsp; utility can only be seen in the eyes of the user, I think it someone saying &quot;they aren't useful&quot; perfectly legitimate and goes beyond &quot;I don't like them.&quot;&nbsp; I don't like random character generation, but I'd never say they weren't useful.&nbsp; In the end, you can't define utility in anything beyond, at best, a collective view of it; the fact some people find it fine doesn't make it useful either.&nbsp; After all, there's no mechanics for any game that &quot;don't work&quot; for someone.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 9247652, member: 7026617"] When it applies to enough of them, just like always. I've acknowledged that was hyperbole (but noting that modelling being "rules for this" requires approaching it from a particular view). Because you're not everyone, and you're specifically not the people who objected to it, which as you've noted yourself is no small group. Its also trivial for people to be tempted to push them up past where they should be. The shapelessness of that method doesn't exactly discourage that. I ran the game, and I disagree. As I noted, the compression of scale helps some, but there are still clearly winners and losers when it comes to getting what you want done in play. Given utility can only be seen in the eyes of the user, I think it someone saying "they aren't useful" perfectly legitimate and goes beyond "I don't like them." I don't like random character generation, but I'd never say they weren't useful. In the end, you can't define utility in anything beyond, at best, a collective view of it; the fact some people find it fine doesn't make it useful either. After all, there's no mechanics for any game that "don't work" for someone. [/QUOTE]

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