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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9250965" data-attributes="member: 42582">I've trimmed your post at this point, because this is where I have something meaningful (I think) to say in response.I agree with your contrast between thematically-rich play, and premise-driven/premise-addressing play. And have nothing to add to it, at least at this stage.But I don't equate the tragedy bard to the 4e fighter.The 4e fighter, in play, actually acts as a relentless vanguard who dominates melee and protects comrades. And we can flip that around - if there are no melees, if there are no threats, then the fighter's thematic content (at least in this respect) will not emerge.Whereas it seems to me that the tragedy bard can fully do their thing even if there are no tragedies, no dire twists of fate, etc. It's purely boxes-to-boxes with not even a hint of clouds. I'm sure a player can play it skilfully, to some degree at least - looking for chances to regain their Inspiration in circumstances where lots of d20s are apt to be rolled, and hence 1s are more likely. But there's no need for tragedy to form any part of this.Just like, in AD&amp;D, I can play my paladin perfectly skilfully, fighting when necessary, using my lay on hands, etc; but with no need for divine inspiration or devotion to form any part of this - the one possible exception, I would say, being using my turn undead ability, which does directly introduce the paladin's divine inspiration/channelling into the play of the game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 9250965, member: 42582"] I've trimmed your post at this point, because this is where I have something meaningful (I think) to say in response. I agree with your contrast between thematically-rich play, and premise-driven/premise-addressing play. And have nothing to add to it, at least at this stage. But I don't equate the tragedy bard to the 4e fighter. The 4e fighter, in play, [I]actually acts as a relentless vanguard who dominates melee and protects comrades[/I]. And we can flip that around - if there are no melees, if there are no threats, then the fighter's thematic content (at least in this respect) will not emerge. Whereas it seems to me that the tragedy bard can fully do their thing [I]even if there are no tragedies[/I], no dire twists of fate, etc. It's purely boxes-to-boxes with not even a hint of clouds. I'm sure a player can play it skilfully, to some degree at least - looking for chances to regain their Inspiration in circumstances where lots of d20s are apt to be rolled, and hence 1s are more likely. But there's no need for tragedy to form any part of this. Just like, in AD&D, I can play my paladin perfectly skilfully, fighting when necessary, using my lay on hands, etc; but with no need for divine inspiration or devotion to form any part of this - the one possible exception, I would say, being using my turn undead ability, which does directly introduce the paladin's divine inspiration/channelling into the play of the game. [/QUOTE]

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