Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ashtagon" data-source="post: 8490272" data-attributes="member: 72335"><p>Considering that 16th century Spanish colonisers (eg Antonio Montesinos) openly discussed whether or not American Indians even had souls and thus qualified to be considered as better than livestock animals, GAZ 10 is an improvement on that. Not by much, and certainly not by enough to ever boast about, but it's there. GAZ10 being an improvement doesn't speak of the quality of the book, but of how low the bar actually was.</p><p></p><p>Granted, that's not about portrayal in RPGs specifically. Depictions of American Indians in an RPG context before the D&D Gazetteer series are thin on the ground (I couldn't find any), but there are several wargames that cover them. I've highlighted a few below, but the portrayal varies from terrible stereotypes, through to awful barbarians to NPCs.</p><p></p><p>There's the Big Chief tabletop game, variously dated as 1938 or 1950, which contains all the bad tropes common to the time. The game 7th Cavalry (1976) features units called squaws and chiefs (illustrated with feather war bonnets); American Indian units are referred to in the rules as "hostiles", contrasted with "U.S. units". Apache (1981) has the following text: "rampaging Indian tribes pillage and burn ranches, settlements, stage coaches", and oytright refers to American Indians as "red men". Top Totem (1959) features a totem pole, which appears to be grossly misrepresented in terms of its cultural meaning.</p><p></p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/682312519/1938-big-chief-game-board-by-milton?show_sold_out_detail=1&ref=nla_listing_details[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29169/big-chief[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://rpggeek.com/image/4716592/7th-cavalry[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://rpggeek.com/image/75360/apache-game-old-west[/URL]</p><p>[URL unfurl="true"]https://rpggeek.com/boardgame/148790/top-totem[/URL]</p><p></p><p>Please note that this isn't praise of GAZ10. I am simply highlighting just how low the bar actually was.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashtagon, post: 8490272, member: 72335"] Considering that 16th century Spanish colonisers (eg Antonio Montesinos) openly discussed whether or not American Indians even had souls and thus qualified to be considered as better than livestock animals, GAZ 10 is an improvement on that. Not by much, and certainly not by enough to ever boast about, but it's there. GAZ10 being an improvement doesn't speak of the quality of the book, but of how low the bar actually was. Granted, that's not about portrayal in RPGs specifically. Depictions of American Indians in an RPG context before the D&D Gazetteer series are thin on the ground (I couldn't find any), but there are several wargames that cover them. I've highlighted a few below, but the portrayal varies from terrible stereotypes, through to awful barbarians to NPCs. There's the Big Chief tabletop game, variously dated as 1938 or 1950, which contains all the bad tropes common to the time. The game 7th Cavalry (1976) features units called squaws and chiefs (illustrated with feather war bonnets); American Indian units are referred to in the rules as "hostiles", contrasted with "U.S. units". Apache (1981) has the following text: "rampaging Indian tribes pillage and burn ranches, settlements, stage coaches", and oytright refers to American Indians as "red men". Top Totem (1959) features a totem pole, which appears to be grossly misrepresented in terms of its cultural meaning. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/682312519/1938-big-chief-game-board-by-milton?show_sold_out_detail=1&ref=nla_listing_details[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29169/big-chief[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://rpggeek.com/image/4716592/7th-cavalry[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://rpggeek.com/image/75360/apache-game-old-west[/URL] [URL unfurl="true"]https://rpggeek.com/boardgame/148790/top-totem[/URL] Please note that this isn't praise of GAZ10. I am simply highlighting just how low the bar actually was. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
"Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D
Top