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"Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8490766" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Sure, but there's a <em>direct</em> link between the Romans and the logic involved in defending/supporting the Roman conquests and the colonial conquests, which started in the renaissance, and did displace populations and leave them "occupied" and so on. And I would question any idea that this is just "how it always is with empires", because a lot of pre-Roman empires had pretty different approaches to empire.</p><p></p><p>The propaganda is that "We're improving their lives by destroying their traditions and making them like us!". The Romans really started that propaganda machine, not actually to use on the victims of their conquests (though they did eventually), but actually to deal with other Romans who were like "Maybe we should stop invading all these places, especially the ones already allied to us, huh?". Further, it's pretty applicable here because the contempt for non-white traditions grows very much out of that line of thinking (even though the Romans had no idea about "white"). Everyone else is either funny dumb barbarians, effete debauched guys whose civilization is barely worth the term, or they're baby-eating monsters whose civilization needs to be destroyed. That was very much the attitude which evolved in Rome (I would agree with the argument that it stemmed in part from the early Romans basically being "bullied" by some semi-nomadic tribes who were obviously not big on architecture or the like but way better at fighting than the Romans of that era).</p><p></p><p>It's the propaganda element and attitudes that surround that that I think make it relevant here.</p><p></p><p>(Also just as an aside, the people who lived in the British Isles in the Roman Era are not the majority population now, because the Saxon invaders displaced them to such a degree (though recent DNA evidence, rather than debunked Dutch studies from the early 2000s, does suggest that there's a lot more sign of the Roman-era British peoples in the southern peninsula, Wales and parts of Scotland). I am aware this is technically pedantry and take your point (though relevant to me personally)).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8490766, member: 18"] Sure, but there's a [I]direct[/I] link between the Romans and the logic involved in defending/supporting the Roman conquests and the colonial conquests, which started in the renaissance, and did displace populations and leave them "occupied" and so on. And I would question any idea that this is just "how it always is with empires", because a lot of pre-Roman empires had pretty different approaches to empire. The propaganda is that "We're improving their lives by destroying their traditions and making them like us!". The Romans really started that propaganda machine, not actually to use on the victims of their conquests (though they did eventually), but actually to deal with other Romans who were like "Maybe we should stop invading all these places, especially the ones already allied to us, huh?". Further, it's pretty applicable here because the contempt for non-white traditions grows very much out of that line of thinking (even though the Romans had no idea about "white"). Everyone else is either funny dumb barbarians, effete debauched guys whose civilization is barely worth the term, or they're baby-eating monsters whose civilization needs to be destroyed. That was very much the attitude which evolved in Rome (I would agree with the argument that it stemmed in part from the early Romans basically being "bullied" by some semi-nomadic tribes who were obviously not big on architecture or the like but way better at fighting than the Romans of that era). It's the propaganda element and attitudes that surround that that I think make it relevant here. (Also just as an aside, the people who lived in the British Isles in the Roman Era are not the majority population now, because the Saxon invaders displaced them to such a degree (though recent DNA evidence, rather than debunked Dutch studies from the early 2000s, does suggest that there's a lot more sign of the Roman-era British peoples in the southern peninsula, Wales and parts of Scotland). I am aware this is technically pedantry and take your point (though relevant to me personally)). [/QUOTE]
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