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"Red Orc" American Indians and "Yellow Orc" Mongolians in D&D
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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8497382" data-attributes="member: 6799660"><p>Your position on the matter has been noted and will be treated with all the deference it deserves. As a simple (and genuine) piece of advice, pointing to a thing someone did and saying "people sound like such children when they do this" is not a great way to convince them of your own expertise in what adulthood looks like. A simple, "In my opinion, self-censorship of this nature in unnecessary, the term is the name of an established trope in racism with its own wikipedia page," would have communicated the same desire-for-specific-behavior, and had a much greater likelihood of being treated seriously.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Once one brought the acquired treasure back to town and got the XP reward, there wasn't all that much to do with money (until name level, I suppose; and of course campaign-dependent things like ship's passage, bribing nobles, etc.) until training costs for level-up were introduced (and when prices for plate mail were upped). My group of players always considered a group of sturdy hirelings to be the important equipment (well, equipment analog, although equipping them well also came into play) in which one invests after you have your weapons, armor, horse, 10' poles, wolvesbane, etc.</p><p></p><p>As to getting by without after a few levels, how did you protect your magic users once you started the wilderness adventure portion of adventuring, and you couldn't keep them behind the front line in conveniently narrow corridors? We certainly implemented workarounds (mostly homemade interception rules/gentlemen's agreements that enemies stopped and fought the front line), but that was us moving far afield of the rules (and certainly Gygaxian playstyle, presumably).</p><p></p><p>If and only if you limit yourself to their dungeon-crawling portion of the game (which, admittedly, was most of what made it into the oD&D ruleset). They also had a RP-intensive (or at least nobles and factions with semblances of personalities) gameplay mode -- it was just called Braunstein and didn't make it into the published product (for reasons I suspect a Peterson book could inform us, Snarf?).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think there's probably a spectrum of these things, just like there are continuums of social stratifications, social isolations, or general weirdness today. Lovecraft certainly seems on one end, REH less so, Arthur Conan Doyle seeming nearly social norm (the mysticism fixation was mainstream at the time, right?), to someone like H Rider Haggard (another author whose work would not fly today) being kinda mainstream British gentleman.</p><p></p><p>My completely personal take on the situation is that the original wargamers (mostly male) and west coast wing (which had a significant female contingent) were just overwhelmed by an influx of middle school through college-age people who mostly fit the 70s/80s 'nerd' archetype (which, again in my experience, was predominantly white males, but the actual ratio is not clear).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 8497382, member: 6799660"] Your position on the matter has been noted and will be treated with all the deference it deserves. As a simple (and genuine) piece of advice, pointing to a thing someone did and saying "people sound like such children when they do this" is not a great way to convince them of your own expertise in what adulthood looks like. A simple, "In my opinion, self-censorship of this nature in unnecessary, the term is the name of an established trope in racism with its own wikipedia page," would have communicated the same desire-for-specific-behavior, and had a much greater likelihood of being treated seriously. Once one brought the acquired treasure back to town and got the XP reward, there wasn't all that much to do with money (until name level, I suppose; and of course campaign-dependent things like ship's passage, bribing nobles, etc.) until training costs for level-up were introduced (and when prices for plate mail were upped). My group of players always considered a group of sturdy hirelings to be the important equipment (well, equipment analog, although equipping them well also came into play) in which one invests after you have your weapons, armor, horse, 10' poles, wolvesbane, etc. As to getting by without after a few levels, how did you protect your magic users once you started the wilderness adventure portion of adventuring, and you couldn't keep them behind the front line in conveniently narrow corridors? We certainly implemented workarounds (mostly homemade interception rules/gentlemen's agreements that enemies stopped and fought the front line), but that was us moving far afield of the rules (and certainly Gygaxian playstyle, presumably). If and only if you limit yourself to their dungeon-crawling portion of the game (which, admittedly, was most of what made it into the oD&D ruleset). They also had a RP-intensive (or at least nobles and factions with semblances of personalities) gameplay mode -- it was just called Braunstein and didn't make it into the published product (for reasons I suspect a Peterson book could inform us, Snarf?). I think there's probably a spectrum of these things, just like there are continuums of social stratifications, social isolations, or general weirdness today. Lovecraft certainly seems on one end, REH less so, Arthur Conan Doyle seeming nearly social norm (the mysticism fixation was mainstream at the time, right?), to someone like H Rider Haggard (another author whose work would not fly today) being kinda mainstream British gentleman. My completely personal take on the situation is that the original wargamers (mostly male) and west coast wing (which had a significant female contingent) were just overwhelmed by an influx of middle school through college-age people who mostly fit the 70s/80s 'nerd' archetype (which, again in my experience, was predominantly white males, but the actual ratio is not clear). [/QUOTE]
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