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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 8500171" data-attributes="member: 6716779">I see your points essentially still pushing the 4E didn't fail because of the mechanics line.  Online tools failure doesn't matter if people hate your product irl they're not gonna play it online either.  OGL up to a point yes but if 4E was popular the fans would have flocked to it regardless of the GSL.  That video you referenced had very few views back in 2007/8. If it's that Kobold and red dragon one.  Soon after 4E died online it was about as popular as a single OSR category. Put togather the OSR combined was a magnitude more popular let alone 3E/Pathfinder.  With 5Es runaway popularity it kind of destroys your arguement. 4Es entire premise was wrong combined with rushing it out the door for an overhaul of that scale. Takes around 3 years to design a popular edition, 2 years to revise one. That was very apparent in 2012 playtest material they weren't going in that direction. Didn't they change course in 4E design around halfway through in effect cutting that 2 years design down to 13 months or something?</blockquote>