Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7067137" data-attributes="member: 6696971">1)  My first and most significant issue is the thematic one; is this a magical charm (like Fey Warlock's Fey Presence, Enchanter Wizards Hypnotic Gaze) or is it mundane (like Swashbucker's Panache).  I would say the evidence is strongly stacked toward it being a magical enchantment:a)  ...charmed creature is peaceful and docile, refusing to move or take actions, unless you command it. b)  When the effect end (after 1 minute), the creature falls unconscious if it has 0 HPs.c)  The overwhelming majority of charm effects in the game are magical in nature.In the aesthetic of 5e and the culture that surrounds it/facilitated it, I would say this is clearly magical in nature.  If you disagree, I'd love to hear the reasoning (and how it reconciles with adverse positions on other mundane compulsions for PCs...you know exactly what I'm talking about here).I don't want this to be a magical charm.  That is my first issue.  "The weight of the Paladin's divinity" doesn't have to mean infliction of the magically charmed condition. [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] ,  [MENTION=6846794]Gardens & Goblins[/MENTION] ,  [MENTION=31506]ehren37[/MENTION] ,  [MENTION=6704184]doctorbadwolf[/MENTION] .  Thoughts on the directly above?2)  The fictional positioning of this effect guarantees nothing (other than 1 minute of Advantage when trying to learn Ideals, Bonds, Flaws via Insight and the same for Charisma checks...or anything else that can be interpreted as social).  The creature is "peaceful and docile" but the rules language does nothing to create inference that the Hostile Attitude is changed from either Indifferent or all the way to Friendly.  In fact, I would say that its silence on the matter (and the fact that the charm only lasts 1 minute) means that its fundamental Attitude is unchanged from Hostile (again, this should be another line of evidence that it is a magical charm or (d) above). I don't like that from either a thematic perspective, a fictional positioning perspective, or a mechanical perspective:* Its thematically incoherent with what should be happening given the trope and archetype that (it would seem) the designers are trying to emulate.* It will create weird/nonsensical fiction (and possibly problematic  play for the group) where the Paladin is playing hypnotist to a catatonic and Hostile NPC (rather than empathic priest to a newly evangelized parishioner in an emotional confessional) whereby the other PCs are inevitably standing by with their itchy trigger-fingers.* The Paladin player is at the mercy of the GM with respect to Attitude.  I think bare minimum the ability should contain a proviso that the Attitude shifts from Hostile to Indifferent.  I would much prefer to get rid of the charmed condition outright and just have the Attitude shifted from Hostile to Friendly and have that be permanent.  Sussing out its Flaws via Insight and cementing relationship with a Charisma check happening without Advantage would be just fine by me if the attitude change is guaranteed (thus opening up the prospects of thematic coherency with absolution and a newly minted NPC ally).3)  I don't think that is too powerful at all.  This is a game with stupidly powerful Enchanters, Diviners, Lore Bards (and other various multiclass builds).  The Redemption Paladin already gives up its 3rd level ability for what (nearly) amounts to fluff (You can play it as a cloth-wearing priest rather than a heavily armored militant).  Allowing it to gain followers/hirelings by granting absolution doesn't strike me as remotely too powerful in light of these things.If there needs to be some sort of level/CR stipulation/numbers stipulation to ensure things don't scale improperly, then the designers can have at it.[HR][/HR]Bottom line, I think the designers missed a golden opportunity for interesting mechanics for this subclass feature (which is odd, because class design has been a strong suit in 5e) and thematic/fictional positioning coherency.</blockquote>

Verification